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Greetings Dakka.

I currently live far away from civilization, my models, and any semblance of a gaming group, but I like to keep up with current 40k trends.

I largely dismissed the new Necron release, but I figure its best for me to understand what they do best and how they do it. I've been trying to come up with a good list so I know what's good and what's not, so help me tear this apart.


Overlord – Warscythe, Command Barge/180pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse/55pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance/35pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance/35pts

Necron Warriors (5) – Ghost Ark/180pts
Necron Warriors (5) – Ghost Ark/180pts
Necron Warriors (5) – Ghost Ark/180pts

Triarch Stalker - /150pts
Triarch Stalker - /150pts

Scarabs (5) – /75pts

Annihilation Barge - /90pts
Annihilation Barge - /90pts
Annihilation Barge - /90pts

Alternatively, I could drop both stalkers and get a second Barge Lord with a second court exactly like the first one, doubling up crypteks in each warrior squad. One cryptek per squad (two with a second court). Seems fairly straight-forward; move an implacable AV13 wall towards the opponent, shooting out the arks and sweeping with the barge, using night-fighting at the beginning to help close the gap.

Thoughts, comments, trolling welcome.

Stalkers are... decent. While their special rule is good and their AV13 until pen is good, they have a single weapon, and the elites slot, and even the points, can be better spent.

If you were going for full on AV13 spam, I would say go for it, but I would suggest dropping at least 1 Stalker and 1 Ark in favor of filling out a Warrior unit and the Scarab unit. Scarabs will die too easily if they are in small units (not to mention that Entropic Strike will not be as effective with smaller units), as will the Warriors, even if they have Arks covering their backs (keep in mind that even though the power can be used while embarked, keeping the Warriors inside the Arks until they are penned and immobilised/wrecked/etc is not a good idea). I think a unit of 7 should be the smallest for the Scarabs.

Alternatively, you could do as you said, drop the Stalkers and go for more Lanceteks, which make fairly good elite killers and AV12 killers. However, your main anti-tank will be either the Surflords or the Scarabs. You could even keep a Stalker, give it a Heavy Gauss Cannon, and take Nemsor Zahndrekh, using his ability to give Tank Hunter to the Stalker.

I've got little to no gaming experience, but from the matches I've seen, the Annihilation Ark is a frightening force in any list. Three of them... *shivers*

They've been on and off for me. They have for S7 shots, and if you roll a 6 to hit you get another 2 auto-hits per 6 rolled. That and after the first hit is resolved you roll for every unit within 6" and on a 6 they suffer hits as well. It can pen armor, though not well (but with 4 shots you have a chance), and can wreck face against hordes.

McNinja wrote:Stalkers are... decent. While their special rule is good and their AV13 until pen is good, they have a single weapon, and the elites slot, and even the points, can be better spent.

If you were going for full on AV13 spam, I would say go for it, but I would suggest dropping at least 1 Stalker and 1 Ark in favor of filling out a Warrior unit and the Scarab unit. Scarabs will die too easily if they are in small units (not to mention that Entropic Strike will not be as effective with smaller units), as will the Warriors, even if they have Arks covering their backs (keep in mind that even though the power can be used while embarked, keeping the Warriors inside the Arks until they are penned and immobilised/wrecked/etc is not a good idea). I think a unit of 7 should be the smallest for the Scarabs.

Alternatively, you could do as you said, drop the Stalkers and go for more Lanceteks, which make fairly good elite killers and AV12 killers. However, your main anti-tank will be either the Surflords or the Scarabs. You could even keep a Stalker, give it a Heavy Gauss Cannon, and take Nemsor Zahndrekh, using his ability to give Tank Hunter to the Stalker.

I agree with most of this. However, assuming you get the alpha strike, then a unit of 5 Scarabs will mathematically take down a Land Raider. (25 attacks on the charge, 12.5 hits assuming the LR moved 6", 6.25 AV points removed, meaning 4 pens)

So I'd rather see 2 units of 5 Scarabs rather than one big unit.

But I personally do not like the idea of taking 2 Triach Stalkers unless you add a lot more guns. However, I personally only like Triarch Stalkers with Tesla weapons, just because the sheer number of hits you'll create from TL Tesla spam will be frightening.

The only problem with small units, especially of swarms, is if they are caught by a blast, they get double wounds inflicted. Larger units can avoid this problem by simply having a craton of bodies to diffuse wounds.

I would drop a stalker but give the other one particle shredder(since its large blast you can "mark" multiple units) Use the 145pts to beef up the warriors squads(to about 10 each) 3x annihilation arks, NICE. Dont expect them to pen vehicles, but they will glance them into a coma

Exalted Pariah wrote:I would drop a stalker but give the other one particle shredder(since its large blast you can "mark" multiple units) Use the 145pts to beef up the warriors squads(to about 10 each) 3x annihilation arks, NICE. Dont expect them to pen vehicles, but they will glance them into a coma

An Annihilation Barge will average something slightly better than 1 pen & 1 glance against Av 11 per round of shooting. So they'll pop transports reasonably well. And unless I'm mistaken (I'm too lazy to go get my codex) I think the Particle Shredder is a small blast.

No, thats particle beamer, particle shredder is 24" str 7 Ap 4 large blast

So with all that solid feedback, it looks like the best course of action is to drop a stalker, buy another 5 base scarab squad, and buy 5 more warriors, and split them between two squads, like this;

Overlord – Warscythe, Command Barge/180pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse/55pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance/35pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance/35pts

Necron Warriors (8) – Ghost Ark/219pts
Necron Warriors (7) – Ghost Ark/206pts
Necron Warriors (5) – Ghost Ark/180pts

Triarch Stalker - /150pts

Scarabs (5) – /75pts
Scarabs (5) – /75pts

Annihilation Barge - /90pts
Annihilation Barge - /90pts
Annihilation Barge - /90pts

Then again, I also feel Necrons work better at higher points, ideally 1750-2000 range (I don't like 2500pts games anymore) where you could squeeze in another lord on a barge and court to help with shooting.

If that`s a solid list, then I think I can start figuring out to deal with Necrons and what I should watch out for.

You're right about Necrons and higher point games... but that also extends to certain units in particular. Stalkers, for one. Reason being, alone, they're not so great. They're best in pairs... but to do that's you're going to need a spare 300 points.
:/

As it stands right now, you're basically running an AV13 Spam list, so you'll be super vulnerable to CC.
(the scarabs might be able to tar-pit, but don't expect miracles from them).
At the 1500 point level, there's not much you can do about that without sacrificing key parts of your army's basic tactics/ theme.

I find Necrons to be vulnerable in CC at any point level. Necrons are just, quite simply, not an assault army. Even their dedicated assault units are I2 with poor number of attacks compared to what most 5th ed codices can do in terms of assault units. I could try and squeeze in some wraiths, but they'd only delay the inevitable. I'd rather play to Necron strengths and have solid shooting and resilience.

Then again, I have ZERO experience with Necrons, this is just my analysis of the codex and reading stuff around the interwebz, so correct if I'm wrong. I understand that wraiths are competent assault units, but everything else just seems too expensive or vulnerable.

Remember, GW is trying to make 2k games the norm in 6th edition. Perhaps that adds some insight as to why Necrons fare so well at 2K+ point games.

And there are quite a few good lists you can run with Necrons. You have the av13 spam, using a Deathstar of fully equipped lords, you can use the dickens out of Crypteks, you can Scarab spam, you can spam warriors and ghost arks, tesla spam, gauss spam (with Phaeron for Relentless), Wraithwing, Praetorian spam (believe it or not, they don't suck that hard in cc), Tremorcrons, Nightcrons (solar pulses and Imotekh), and even combine those together. Most aren't mutually exclusive, so you can mix and match with varying results. The list in this thread is one of a dozen decent/good lists, and necrons only get better at the poinbt limit goes higher.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wraiths are cometent in cc because they have a piece of wargear that allows them to cause all enemy units in base contact to strike at I1. Praetorians are good because they can tarpit and have the capacity to own face in their round of shooting/assault, and if you give either of them furious charge, they get even better.

Necrons are mid-range shooty, and they do it well. They do long range poorly (see Doomsday Ark) and cc poorly (see I2), but if you get within 24" they will wreck you face. And glance you to death.

Yeah, its kind of disappointing to see the game constantly grow higher in points, at least for me anyways.

So, if I wanted a good 2k list, would this be viable?

Overlord – Warscythe, Command Barge/180pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse/55pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance/35pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance/35pts

Overlord – Warscythe, Command Barge/180pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse/55pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance/35pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance/35pts

Necron Warriors (8) – Ghost Ark/219pts
Necron Warriors (8) – Ghost Ark/219pts
Necron Warriors (8) – Ghost Ark/219pts

Triarch Stalker - /150pts
Triarch Stalker - /150pts

Scarabs (5) – /75pts
Scarabs (5) – /75pts

Annihilation Barge - /90pts
Annihilation Barge - /90pts
Annihilation Barge - /90pts

Same idea as before, just with more...stuff. Your input is excellent, greatly appreciated.

Blacksails wrote:So, if I wanted a good 2k list, would this be viable?

YUP.

(that's your typical AV13 Spam list, alright. a very viable army. the best thing? You can easily make this with a couple of Battleforce boxes and a bunch of Barge boxes, plus the Stalkers, once they come out next month).

Oh how I am waiting for next month.

skoffs wrote:once they come out next month.

So are there definite rumours about a necron second wave for May?

adam304 wrote:

skoffs wrote:once they come out next month.

So are there definite rumours about a necron second wave for May?

...
I'll just leave this here
http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/necrons-may-5th/

skoffs wrote:

adam304 wrote:

skoffs wrote:once they come out next month.

So are there definite rumours about a necron second wave for May?

...
I'll just leave this here
http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/necrons-may-5th/

Niceee cheers, can't wait now!

I notice no Scythes. Damn.

Blacksails wrote:Yeah, its kind of disappointing to see the game constantly grow higher in points, at least for me anyways.

So, if I wanted a good 2k list, would this be viable?

Overlord – Warscythe, Command Barge/180pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse/55pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance/35pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance/35pts

Overlord – Warscythe, Command Barge/180pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse/55pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance/35pts
Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction) – Eldritch Lance/35pts

Necron Warriors (8) – Ghost Ark/219pts
Necron Warriors (8) – Ghost Ark/219pts
Necron Warriors (8) – Ghost Ark/219pts

Triarch Stalker - /150pts
Triarch Stalker - /150pts

Scarabs (5) – /75pts
Scarabs (5) – /75pts

Annihilation Barge - /90pts
Annihilation Barge - /90pts
Annihilation Barge - /90pts

Same idea as before, just with more...stuff. Your input is excellent, greatly appreciated.

I think this is the most competitive list you can get at 2k outside of Scarab Farms and Wraithwings. You have essentially nothing except AV 13 to present for target selection (a nightmare for many lists), the entire army is highly mobile and you've got 9 sources of anti-tank (2x barges, 2x scarabs, 2x stalkers and 3x units with of lanceteks, not to mention all the TL gauss).

And by my math, you've got 13 points left, so you might as well add in one Gaze of Flame. You don't need it, but you have the points, so ya might as well.

Great job.

azazel the cat wrote:
I think this is the most competitive list you can get at 2k outside of Scarab Farms and Wraithwings. You have essentially nothing except AV 13 to present for target selection (a nightmare for many lists), the entire army is highly mobile and you've got 9 sources of anti-tank (2x barges, 2x scarabs, 2x stalkers and 3x units with of lanceteks, not to mention all the TL gauss).

And by my math, you've got 13 points left, so you might as well add in one Gaze of Flame. You don't need it, but you have the points, so ya might as well.

Great job.

Perfect, exactly what I'm looking for. I'll have to go through the book and read the fluff and see if they appeal to me at all now. Either way, good to know what I could run up against that would give my IG a solid run.

Thanks again!

Blacksails wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:
I think this is the most competitive list you can get at 2k outside of Scarab Farms and Wraithwings. You have essentially nothing except AV 13 to present for target selection (a nightmare for many lists), the entire army is highly mobile and you've got 9 sources of anti-tank (2x barges, 2x scarabs, 2x stalkers and 3x units with of lanceteks, not to mention all the TL gauss).

And by my math, you've got 13 points left, so you might as well add in one Gaze of Flame. You don't need it, but you have the points, so ya might as well.

Great job.

Perfect, exactly what I'm looking for. I'll have to go through the book and read the fluff and see if they appeal to me at all now. Either way, good to know what I could run up against that would give my IG a solid run.

Thanks again!

This has become a pretty well rounded list!
Obviously CC is still your greatest weakness, but if you ever wanted to bump the list up to the 2500 bracket, two units of 6 Wraiths (3x coils, 2x pistol) would round everything out nicely!

As has been said the second list is spot on, and really plays to necron strengths.

The more and more I play I find the smaller groups of Scarabs effective at simply drawing fire. While some builds rely on scarabs from offence I like the 75pt squads just for fast harassment units. And as the math has shown even 5 scarabs can not be ignored. Admittedly this works best in lists that also have foot elements, as the scarabs saturate the anti infantry weapons of the enemy. But I've sill found them quite useful in mech heavy necron armies.

skoffs wrote:
Obviously CC is still your greatest weakness, but if you ever wanted to bump the list up to the 2500 bracket, two units of 6 Wraiths (3x coils, 2x pistol) would round everything out nicely!

This is correct, CC is still your greatest weakness. So here's my solution:

Do not engage in CC.

That is all. Everything you have is AV 13, which is a tough nut to crack. Just make sure you send the Scarabs directly after any dedicated anti-tank vehicles like Predators, and therefor force your opponent to try to use things like meltabombs to crack your vehicles. If you always move your vehicles, then even Power Fists will only have an 8% chance to pen the vehicle per swing. Just watch out for Meltaguns. Fortunately, these latter options only work while within rapid-fire Gauss range.