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I think I understand the following rule on page 30. It says "the points costs of a detachment, and any upgrades it has taken, counts towards the points total of the same unit category as the Regimental Unit they are purchased with. Does this mean if greatswords are the parent unit then core troops that are attachments count as special? If so this kind of is a bummer. Am I correct?

That would be the way I interpret that rule.
So any detachments you take for your greatswords would count towards your Special points limit, not their normal category.

Yarp, that appears to be the case

It looks that way to us around here. Getting "free" stubborn troops with no drawbacks would be a bit silly.

Davall wrote:It looks that way to us around here. Getting "free" stubborn troops with no drawbacks would be a bit silly.

Normally I would say yes....however, I have never thought of Empire as a top tier army...and now with some of the new rules...it definitely has been taken down several notchs. There are those that say there is a lot of new synergy in this book but I am not seeing anything that couldn't be done in the last book...minus the attachments rules ( which are pretty cool. However, there is nothing amazing such as manhunter scouts. Price increases (some valid many not) and the death of the magic items that were desperately needed to make empire competitive. I am going to play several games before I make up my mind but I am seriously considering selling my Empire army after this book release.

I definitely think Empire were a top tier army with their old book. The thing that kept them from seeing high turnout (IMO) was a general distaste for the models (poofy clothing, state troops festooned in details,) and the largish model count.

The new book is definitely weaker than the old book. However, it is very fair compared to the other 8th ed books, so I'm ok with the nerfs (as long as the rest of the books are similarly nerfed and balanced.)

I've generally found that the army is much more "fighty." My shooting elements have degraded to a minimum of a pair of cannons, and (if points permit) a pair of Volley guns and Engineers.

The rest of the army fights. Cheap Warrior priests, Hordes of Halberds, Hurricanum for the +1 to hit (very nice,) and Demigryphs make up the main stay of my army now.

If I was to go to a tournament, I'd probably do a Dark Elf, WOC, or Lizardman army now, but the Empire are pretty fun in casual play.

This isn't an original complaint, but I have to say I was a GW fan for over 10 years and often accused of being an apologist. Now, I am officially frustrated and ready to jump ship. I agree that this book is in line with the other books...maybe minus Ogre kingdoms but that is under debate. The problem I have with GW compared to say Warmachine, is that when warmachine came out with a new set of rules, every army book was released during the MK2 release date. This crap with I am going to find an army that has an old book so I can beat face and brutalize everyone is old. I have DE and before with Empire I could take them down, but now...lol with DE I will roll Empire over just in the magic phase alone (no more priests that generate dispel dice). This GW trend of release a new book every few months and then oh now here is a new rulebook so some armies are 6th edition, 7th, 8th, and now 9th is just absolutely stupid and broken.

I had tried Warmachine in the past and at first went Meh...and they have their own balances issues (although good players still win with any army) the idea that GW does not release all their army book at the same time means the game will always have power creep and broken armies. I wish GW would just fix that one thing...release the army books all at the same time, and I would be so much happier.

Adjust, adapt and move forward. The Empire book looks to be a very nice/solid 8th edition book. While I agree with some of the complaints, in general it looks to be a very nice book overall.

If you think they will just drop over dead to Dark Elves, well, think again. No more mortar crutches will make it a harder fight, but hardly an non-winnable one.

As to GW's release schedule after a rules update, that's a long standing complaint. It's not going to change any time soon.

Well, there are some pretty huge differences between the two systems.

Warmachine has 6 armies.

Hordes has 5.

Warhammer has 14.

Every time WM updates a book, they have to update 6 armies (each army gets 3-4 new things or so.)

Every time Hordes updates a book, they have to update 5 things.

If Warhammer wanted to do the same, it would have to update 14 armies - so far longer gap between releases.

Also, Warhammer would have to start from scratch - when the new rulebook was announced at 540pages or whatever, I thought they were going to do it then. While it makes sense from a gaming perspective, it's also very risky and can turn a lot of players off to have everything reset - especially if you just bought the latest army.

For the record, I do like the PP way of doing things - in theory. But I do recall feeling a little ripped off when I bought the Domination book - there was nothing in there that appealed to me, so this "update" was a waste of time and money. I also feel frustrated that to play at the highest level I have to buy several books - rulebook (no problem,) faction book (no problem,) domination (useless,) minions, and mercs. And there will be a Hordes Collosals book coming out soon, right? So I guess I'll need that to see how those things work.

People keep telling me that I don't need the last two books but I don't understand how I'm supposed to understand all my options otherwise. I don't have a smart phone, so no Ibodger for me. I've looked at Battle Colleges and Foraward Kommander but they don't tell you all the info (stats, wordings on abilities...etc.)

Anyway, that was a bit of a tangent. Safe to say both systems have their flaws.

That is because games workshop working pipeline is in-effective. They can release a digital copy of every book army books and then errata every months with white dwarf and online service. Then bundle it at the end of the year to a new big book just like monthly update in online strategy game. That way the game is not only more balanced but also more consistence.

besbin wrote:That is because games workshop working pipeline is in-effective. They can release a digital copy of every book army books and then errata every months with white dwarf and online service. Then bundle it at the end of the year to a new big book just like monthly update in online strategy game. That way the game is not only more balanced but also more consistence.

And maybe they can also pass out tinfoil hats


Going back to the OP yes they do count towards special

besbin wrote:That is because games workshop working pipeline is in-effective. They can release a digital copy of every book army books and then errata every months with white dwarf and online service. Then bundle it at the end of the year to a new big book just like monthly update in online strategy game. That way the game is not only more balanced but also more consistence.

No, your method has a high barrier to entry which puts people off. They used to do WD updates to books, until they realised people getting into the game werent a huge fan of having to source AND carry around multiple soft or hard copies in order to have all the rules. This hasnt changed.

You overestimate how often codexes and army books get a print run. Yearly? Nope.

Finally they release books to sell models, not models to sell books. Their method works by giving them time to build up a load of new models to release with the book, and space to fill in the gaps, increasing the longevity of interest in each book.

You fundamentally misunderstand what GW are trying to do - which is to sell models. Making a balanced game is tangential to that aim.

Also, keep in mind that detachments on core units now count towards the minimum core % which I don't recall them doing before.