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Over the next few months I'm going to be attending several local tournaments, and I thought I'd dust off the ol' Chaos army. I put a lot of time and love into converting and painting it, and I kinda want to show it off. I know it's not the best codex out there, and I'm not expecting to win big with it. That being said, I want to be competitive, and do as well as I can. I'm dedicated to the Chaoszilla theme because I think it's fun, unique, and shows off my best models. However, I'm willing to tweak things, and all the infantry stuff is pretty much subject to change.

In addition to comments on the list itself, I'm also looking for suggestions on tactics. What armies will give me problems? How could I overcome those problems? What's the best way to use my units together as a cohesive force? Honestly, anything you have to say would be welcome.

Here's the 1750 list. I'll explain later what I'll add in for 1850 and 2000pt tournaments.

Daemon Prince: Wings, Slaanesh, Lash
Daemon Prince: Wings, Slaanesh, Lash
Greater Daemon:

Dreadnought: 2 DCCW
Dreadnought: MM, DCCW
Dreadnought: Plasma, DCCW

5 Chaos Space Marines: Melta, Champ, Icon of Glory
Rhino:

8 Berzerkers: Champ (PW)
Rhino:

7 Berzerkers: Champ (PW)
Rhino:

Defiler:
Defiler:
Vindicator: Daemonic Possession

Total: 1750pts, 32 models, 3 Scoring, 15 KPs


At 1850, I replace the Vindicator's Possession with Dozer Blades, give the dual-DCCW dread a Heavy Flamer, add an 8th Berzerker to the second squad, give both 'zerker squads personal icons, and add in 6 lesser daemons.

At 2000, I swap the Vindicator's Dozer Blades back out for Possession again, and increase both berzerker squads and the daemons to 10 men each.

I love the list. I can imagine my jaw hitting the floor when I set that stuff hitting the table.

I think the ONLY thing that I can recommend changing is swapping one group of Zerkers for a group of Plague Marines. At least with PMs you have durability, and some special weapons to crack incoming vehicles. I think you're Troop-lite as well. In an objective game your Troops will be their number one target. If they can wipe them out, all you can do is contest.

Jut my 2¢

Yeah looks like a fun list but I'd try to run 2x units of plague marines in rhinos rather than a 3rd squad of zerkers.

Plague marines don't kill much, but they soak up damage like nobodies business. Tie someone up with plagues and then wipe them out at your leisure with a demon prince or greater demon.

What I do is send my plagues after the shooty stuff without powerfists etc and tie up the units so they can't shoot while my assaulty stuff is wiping out the high dollar targets (HQ. Elites). Then as you wipe stuff out go help the plagues with the free squads.

Thanks for the replies guys. I've been tweaking the list a bit based on advice I've gotten here and elsewhere. Hopefully the list is now better able to pop transports in the first couple turns to get at the juicy infantry inside. See what you think.


Daemon Prince: Wings, Tzeentch, Bolt of Change
Daemon Prince: Wings, Tzeentch, Bolt of Change

Dreadnought: Missile, DCCW, Heavy Flamer
Dreadnought: Missile, DCCW, Heavy Flamer

4 Terminators: 3 Combi-Melta, Power Fist
Land Raider:

8 Berzerkers: Champ (Power Fist)
Rhino:

6 Plague Marines: 2 Meltaguns
Rhino:

6 Plague Marines: 2 Plasma
Rhino:

Defiler:
Defiler:
Vindicator: Daemonic Possession

Total: 1999pts, 35 models, 3 Scoring, 15 KPs


Any comments or critiques are welcome. Also, how would you lower this to 1850 or 1750pts?

Everything looks very well laid out. You've paired out everything perfectly. Deployment, and choosing wether to go for the throat or let them come to you, will be the key.

A few questions/observations though:

On your Daemon Princes:
Why MoT and Bolt of Change over MoS and Lash? If you're thinking a 4++ will save your Daemon Prince out in the open, you're in for a rude awakening (and I say that from stubborn experience).
MoT is best used when you have two Psychic powers. Princes are safest in close combat. Lash gives you the ability to bring troops into assault range, and get into that safe CC.
Why Bolt of Change? Are you expecting to Deep Strike and pop vehicles with a Daemon Prince?

Obviously the Termicides are there to Deep Strike and pop vehicles, and to give you the Land Raider for your Khorne Berskers.
I would drop a single Termicide, and put those points into getting one more Berserker. If you get get them up to 10, even better.
You still run into that issue where your Berserkers must start the game outside the Land Raider (only the Terminators are permitted inside to start the game).
What about if you dropped the Vindicator in favor of a Squad of Chosen in a Rhino Outflanking, and move the Land Raider into the Vindi's Heavy Support slot?

Other than that, the list looks very good. I look forward to you letting us know how you've made out with it.

Mizzri wrote:On your Daemon Princes:
Why MoT and Bolt of Change over MoS and Lash? If you're thinking a 4++ will save your Daemon Prince out in the open, you're in for a rude awakening (and I say that from stubborn experience).
MoT is best used when you have two Psychic powers. Princes are safest in close combat. Lash gives you the ability to bring troops into assault range, and get into that safe CC.
Why Bolt of Change? Are you expecting to Deep Strike and pop vehicles with a Daemon Prince?

The consensus among people I talked to was that heavy mechanization is going to be my biggest problem, so I need ways to blast transports apart to get at the gribblies inside. The princes will be following up behind the other stuff to get cover (or blocked LoS from the land raider), and using their Bolts to reach out and pop some tin cans. And yeah, the 4++ will help 'em survive a little longer, but that certainly wasn't the main reason. Also, I'd give 'em another power each, but powers are so expensive, I didn't want to invest that many points into princes.

Mizzri wrote:Obviously the Termicides are there to Deep Strike and pop vehicles, and to give you the Land Raider for your Khorne Berskers.
I would drop a single Termicide, and put those points into getting one more Berserker. If you get get them up to 10, even better.
You still run into that issue where your Berserkers must start the game outside the Land Raider (only the Terminators are permitted inside to start the game).

Can a unit start the game in reserve if its transport starts on the board? If so, then yeah, I'll probably do that. If the zerkers are getting in the raider, do they need their own Rhino?

Mizzri wrote:What about if you dropped the Vindicator in favor of a Squad of Chosen in a Rhino Outflanking, and move the Land Raider into the Vindi's Heavy Support slot?

Well, that would only work if I dropped the termies too, since I'm full on Elite slots. Also, why do people hate on the vindicator? I love them! I've never found range to be an issue, and the S10 AP2 template is amazing. The only downside I ever find is that they get targeted and wiped out, but in this list with so many other target priorities, that shouldn't be as much of a problem.

Chaoszilla wins!!!!

Well, I've never actually played Chaoszilla, despite the strong desire to. But in theory it wins on concept alone (probably not on the table, although to be fair it could be a pretty hard list for certain armies to take down.).

I like your 1750 list. In fact i like the 1750, 1850 and 2000 from the OP. I'm not so keen on the new version.
I think rush forward and lash things into better positions is the way to go, you've got 2 MC, with another turning up later, 3 Dreads and two defilers and 4 vehicles. I think thats harder to take down than people might expect. A lot of armies are more focused on closer ranged anti-tank weaponry these days it seems, and once your close, you've got the advantage against probably anything other than GKs.

Yes, the Land Raider can start the game on the board even if the Termies are in reserve. And the Berskers can board the Land Raider and use it even if the Termies are still in reserve. The only rule that must be observed is only the Termies are allowed to START the game inside the Land Raider. And no, the Berskers don't need a Rhino. You just need to be creative about positioning and protecting them until they can safely board.

Princes don't need bolt to blast transports apart. They do that much better with their claws. Give them lash so they can pull people out of cover. They don't get grenades so you go last assaulting thru cover.

I agree with Kevlar: 5x S6 + 2d6 Armour Pen on the charge is way better than 1x S8 + 1d6 Armour Pen with a Bolt.

And Lashing so you can assault, especially if they were originally in cover, is invaluable. If you don't want to be cookie-cutter, I understand your reservation. But Lash Princes are one of the biggest keys to a successful Chaos list.

I've got no problems with Lash princes. I kinda love 'em. The main concern was that you can't lash guys around if they're still in transports. However, what if I give up on trying to fit the Dreadnoughts in, and go with something like this?

Daemon Prince: Wings, Slaanesh, Lash
Daemon Prince: Wings, Slaanesh, Lash
Greater Daemon:

5 Chosen: 2 Meltaguns, 3 Plasma
Rhino:
5 Chosen: 2 Meltaguns, 3 Flamers, Champ
Rhino:
5 Chosen: 2 Meltaguns, 3 Flamers, Champ
Rhino:

9 Berzerkers: Champ (Fist)
Rhino:
5 Plague Mariness: 2 Meltaguns
Rhino:
5 Plague Marines: 2 Plasma
Rhino:

Defiler:
Defiler:
Vindicator: Daemonic Possession

Total: 1999pts, 46 models, 3 Scoring, 18 KPs


The KPs jump up pretty steeply, but I should have a better chance of killing stuff. The plan is to start all 3 Chosen squads on the board, Scout them forward, and open up the 3 transports on turn 1. I'll then have some targets for Lash and my pie plates. And on my opponent's turn, he'll have to choose between opening the Chosen's rhinos and dealing with that threat, or shooting my incoming wave of monsters.

Is this better. I know I give up the assault potential of the Dreadnoughts, but on the other hand I got my Greater Daemon back, and lots of special weapons right up close on turn 1. Am I left with enough assault potential to carry the day? Or did I lose too much by taking out the dreads?

Edit: Chosen have Infiltrate, not Scout. What was I thinking? Since you can't infiltrate Rhinos, should I make do without transports (leaving them very vulnerable, and not really soaking anti-tank fire), deploy them normally, or outflank them?

No Obliterators? I thought Chaos thrived on it.

One vindicator is just going to get turned into slag, at least in the Vanilla Loyalist codex.

Crazyterran wrote:One vindicator is just going to get turned into slag, at least in the Vanilla Loyalist codex.

Right, because it's not like my opponent is going to have anything else to shoot at. Better get a second in there for target saturation! [/sarcasm]