Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well alrighty, I have a 1500 pt 6-7 round league coming up next month. Thus far my list is
HQ;
Shas'el
-Plasma rifle
-Cyclic Ion Blaster
-Multi-tracker
-Hard-wired drone controller
-Gun drones x2

Shas'vre Bodyguard 1
-Plasma Rifle
-burst cannon
-multi-tracker
-hard-wired drone controller
-Gun drone x2

Shas'vre Bodyguard 2
-plasma rifle
-missile pod
-multi-tracker
-hard-wired drone controller
-gun drone x2
Total: 295

Elite:
Stealth Suit team x6
-Team Leader
-bonding knife
-fusion blaster
-Targeting array x6
Total: 252

Troops
Fire Warriors x8
-Shas'ui
-bonding knife
-drone controller
-gun drone x2
Total: 115

Fire Warriors x8
-Shas'ui
-bonding knife
-drone controller
-gun drones x2
Total: 115

Kroot Carnivores x10
Total: 70

Fast Attack
Pathfinders x8
-Shas'ui
-Bonding knife
Devilfish
-D-pod
-Seeker missile x2
Total: 216

Pathfinders x8
-Shas'ui
-Bonding knife
-Rail rifle x3
Devilfish
-D-pod
-Seeker missile x2
Total: 246

Heavy Support
XV-88 Broadsides x2
-Drone controller x2
-gun drone x4
-Team leader
-bonding knife
Total: 190

Absolute Total: 1499

Any suggestions on improvements on the list?

HQ;
Shas'el
-Plasma rifle
-Cyclic Ion Blaster
-Multi-tracker
-Hard-wired drone controller
-Gun drones x2

Shas'vre Bodyguard 1
-Plasma Rifle
-burst cannon
-multi-tracker
-hard-wired drone controller
-Gun drone x2

Shas'vre Bodyguard 2
-plasma rifle
-missile pod
-multi-tracker
-hard-wired drone controller
-gun drone x2
Total: 295

Elite:
Stealth Suit team x6
-Team Leader
-bonding knife
-fusion blaster
-Targeting array x6
Total: 252

I'd run this (without running out and buying 4 more crisis suits)
HQ:
Shas'el PR/MP/HWMT/HWDC/TA x2 Shield drones edit:and a Bonding Knife!
132pts.

Elite:
Crisis x2 BC/MP/MT or PR/MP/MT
100pts or 124pts

And 2 squads of stealthsuits, more fire power, same points and 6 extra wounds( + they gain pinning)
Elite:
x3 Stealthsuits BC,DC x3 Gun Drones
120pts
Elite:
x3 Stealthsuits x2 BC/DC x1 FB/TA x3 Gundrones
132pts

HQ:
Shas'el PR/MP/HWMT/HWDC/TA x2 Shield drones edit:and a Bonding Knife!
132pts.

Elite:
Crisis x2 BC/MP/MT or PR/MP/MT
100pts or 124pts

And 2 squads of stealthsuits, more fire power, same points and 6 extra wounds( + they gain pinning)
Elite:
x3 Stealthsuits BC,DC x3 Gun Drones
120pts
Elite:
x3 Stealthsuits x2 BC/DC x1 FB/TA x3 Gundrones
132pts

well if it's any correlation, I do have two more crisis suits I can deploy, both of them have FB, BC, and MT.
Interesting idea, that would allow me more versatility (and pinning weapons to go with those pathfinders) need to do a gun drone headcount

Stealthsuits make my head hurt when I build squads with them, they just have so many varibles. I've come to the conclusion they should always be under 150pts and pack every shot you can into them. With 2 more crisis in the equation drop a squad of Stealth and run another x2 crisis BC/MP/MT or BC/PR/MT (and pack more gun drones into the stealth unit you keep for the points diferance)

The rest of your list could use some work.
what models do you have?

Good enough idea, the two man crisis suit team has served me well in the past.

the rest of the models I have are 2 more full squads of fire warriors, 6 more kroot (or maybe 5 I think I lost one), an ethereal (he's hit and miss for me), a pirahna, lots of gun drones, 2 more df, and 2 HH
edit: oh and vespid

I'd try spliting the broadsides into 2 units with a single shield drone with each. Splits your fire and makes the other guy split his when he attacks.

My first thought when I saw your list was 2 pathfinder squads and so little to actually use the ML tolkens . I'd cut the number of pathfinders to 4, 5 or 6 per unit or drop one, Ive never run them with rail riffles before , it seemed way to many points.Do you need them? or can something else fill that roll?

and either run a full 12 FW with bonding knife and shas'ui or units or 6 FW with no upgrades.( I favor towards the later in my lists)
If you can cut enough points throw in a HH wth RG, BC, DP, MT (165pts) just because it take alot of heat from your other units.

1. Definitely split your Broadside team. Skip the Bonding Knife.

2. I wouldn't bring the seekers, especially not on Devilfish. If you are keen on them, use Piranha to carry them so you can hit side armor on turn 1.

3. If you are bringing two PF teams, use 6-man units. 3 hits is enough to get BS5 and drop cover to a 5+.

4. Personally, I really don't like Rail Rifles. They are expensive, and I'd rather just have a Markerlight.

5. I'd really try to bring your Piranha (FB + TA + DP). It's a little pricey, but it's good for blocking movement and contesting objectives. And if you get lucky enough, it can take out a vehicle.

6. Consider bumping your Kroot up to 13 men to make them a little more resilient to shooting.

7. Full-size Firewarrior units can be effective, especially if most of your opponents are likely to bring a small number of high S, low AP weapons for killing MEQs and vehicles.

The main purpose for bringing all the pathfinders is to pin anything that tries to get close (the main purpose of having all the gun drones) dropping them to 6 should bet me a few more points for some other goodies. Along with the seeker missiles and some toying I should be able to get the crisis suits hmmm. Any other ideas? I'm playing tonight so I'm ginna try out a couple different lists

Relying on pinning from drones is a little too unreliable for me, even with the negative modifiers you can add from Markerlights. Two gun drones will cause half a wound to an MEQ at BS2. With -3 LD on the pinning check a Tac Squad will get pinned ~60% of the time. (It's much worse if you are relying on the rail rifles to pin, as you won't have markerlight support).

And this requires that the unit you are shooting at isn't Fearless!

If you really want to keep units pinned (and this would be expecting infantry-heavy lists), I'd bring a unit or two of carbine Firewarriors. Or a Gun Drone squadron. With so many shots, you are free to use all the markerlight hits to drop LD for the pinning test, which should improve the chances greatly of pinning the target unit.

Okay so I spruced up my list a little bit. Now I have this

HQ;
Shas'el
-Plasma rifle
-Cyclic Ion Blaster
-Multi-tracker
-Hard-wired drone controller
-Gun drones x2

Shas'vre Bodyguard 1
-Plasma Rifle
-burst cannon
-multi-tracker
-hard-wired drone controller
-Gun drone x2

Shas'vre Bodyguard 2
-plasma rifle
-missile pod
-multi-tracker
-hard-wired drone controller
-gun drone x2
Total: 295

Elite:
Stealth Suit team x3
-Team Leader
-bonding knife
-Drone Controller x2
-Gun drone x4
Total: 140

Crisis Team x2
-Fusion Blaster x2
-Burst cannon x2
-Multi-tracker x2
Total: 100

Troops
Fire Warriors x10
-Shas'ui
-bonding knife
-drone controller
-gun drone x2
Total: 115

Fire Warriors x10
-Shas'ui
-bonding knife
-drone controller
-gun drones x2
Total: 115

Kroot Carnivores x14
Total: 98

Fast Attack
Pathfinders x6
-Shas'ui
-Bonding knife
Devilfish
-D-pod
Total: 172

Pathfinders x6
-Shas'ui
-Bonding knife
Devilfish
-D-pod
Total: 172

Pirahna
-D-pod
-Fusion Blaster
-Targeting array
Total: 80

Heavy Support
XV-88 Broadsides
-Drone controller
-shield drone
Total: 85

XV-88 Broadsides
-Drone controller
-shield drone
Total: 85

Absolute Total: 1497


Automatically Appended Next Post:

elrabin wrote:

If you really want to keep units pinned (and this would be expecting infantry-heavy lists), I'd bring a unit or two of carbine Firewarriors. Or a Gun Drone squadron. With so many shots, you are free to use all the markerlight hits to drop LD for the pinning test, which should improve the chances greatly of pinning the target unit.

Point taken, which would also give me another unit to deep strike if I used the gun drones... carbine FW isn't really an option because I didn't make any and have used the bits for other things. Perhaps switch out pirahna for drone squad?

Your Piranha is 75pts. Target Array is cheaper on vehicles.
Your troops should be 135 pts with 9 FW, a shas'ui, BK and 2 gun drones.

Elite:
Stealth Suit team x3
-Team Leader
-bonding knife
-Drone Controller x2
-Gun drone x4
Total: 140

When you take wargear on stealthsuits all of them must take an upgrade, but in this case it is an easy fix.
Stealthsuit x3
-teamleader
-bonding knife
-drone controller x3
-x4 Gun Drones
Total 140pts.

I'd drop the shas'ui and bonding knife off the pathfinders to pick up some extra points. (maybe even off the troops and stealthsuits as well, those points add up and most the time another gun is better)
A bonding knife on your Shas'el is worth it however! or for any crisis team with more than 2 bodies, they are just to expensive not too.
Think about running the body guards as a crisis team instead. What I've had luck with is running a shas'el with iridium armor and shield drones and joining my pathfinders.
Take the piranha over a gun drone squad.

You might consider running your Shas'el BC/MP, I've mathhammered it and unless you plan on getting into rapid fire range with the plasma the burst cannon is a better value at BS4.

What armies are you likely to be going up against?

oh I thought the bonding knife counted towards the upgrades. And yeah, I have the points right on my spreadsheet, just didn't type them in right on this, my bad
If I had to guess, mostly MEQ's, with a fairly high percentage of grey knights (I believe at least 4 out of the 20). Along with Necrons, there's one Ork, IG, and Dark Eldar I believe too

Still lotsa issues and room for improvement:

PwnerTrainee wrote:Shas'el
-Plasma rifle
-Cyclic Ion Blaster
-Multi-tracker
-Hard-wired drone controller
-Gun drones x2

Shas'vre Bodyguard 1
-Plasma Rifle
-burst cannon
-multi-tracker
-hard-wired drone controller
-Gun drone x2

Shas'vre Bodyguard 2
-plasma rifle
-missile pod
-multi-tracker
-hard-wired drone controller
-gun drone x2
Total: 295

1. A unit with six GDs at Toughness 3 and three suits = Majority Toughness of 3. See how that's bad? *That's* why Shield Ds are better; they retain the same T and Armor Save as the Suits. Toss or change the GDs to SDs.
2. Demote both 'Vres into your remaining Elite FoC. Only use 'Vres once you've filled up the other 9 spaces of Elites, and 2 HQ spots. You'll save a few points, as being a 'Vre has *no* appreciable gain. Besides, the HQ can still join the cheaper unit and detach if he wants. A Shas'el cannot detach from his 'Vres as they are one of the last few 'retinue' hold overs form 3e.
3. The main reason to field 'Vres (besides suit numbers 12 through 15) is so they can have a Target Array and *then* a hwMT. TA giving them BS4. But that can be accomplished for one suit, cheaper, as a Team Leader in an Elite FoC unit.

PwnerTrainee wrote:Stealth Suit team x3
-Team Leader
-bonding knife
-Drone Controller x2
-Gun drone x4
Total: 140

It just looks so squishy. Eh.

PwnerTrainee wrote:Crisis Team x2
-Fusion Blaster x2
-Burst cannon x2
-Multi-tracker x2
Total: 100

FB/BC? Anti-tank gun coupled with an anti-infatry gun. Dude, this is one of the least used load-outs I can recall. Do switch to FK, FS, or Deathrain. *Maybe* a Helios PR/FB. *Maybe* a Fireblade, PR/BC.

PwnerTrainee wrote:Heavy Support
XV-88 Broadsides
-Drone controller
-shield drone
Total: 85

XV-88 Broadsides
-Drone controller
-shield drone
Total: 85

I'd recombine them into one unit:
Team Leader, A.s.s., BK, hwDC, hwTarget Lock.
2nd suit: A.s.s.

It eliminates a KP. I don't put Target Locks on anymore, because even with AP1, 1 RG shot doesn't mean a dead tank. Still, be bold and keep the Target Lock, but the single unit allows for A.s.s. and the drones and the hwTL.

PwnerTrainee wrote: Perhaps switch out pirahna for drone squad?

Gods, no. GDs are a unit you'd only field as a second to last resort. Vespid being the uber losers of the codex.

Brothererekose wrote:I'd recombine them into one unit:
Team Leader, A.s.s., BK, hwDC, hwTarget Lock.
2nd suit: A.s.s.

It eliminates a KP. I don't put Target Locks on anymore, because even with AP1, 1 RG shot doesn't mean a dead tank. Still, be bold and keep the Target Lock, but the single unit allows for A.s.s. and the drones and the hwTL.

The benefit of two units is:
1. A little cheaper
2. You can fire one shot and direct the second based on the results of the first
3. More resilient

A target lock isn't equivalent to making them two units. The kill point concern is valid, but if you table your opponent it doesn't matter how many KPs you give up

PwnerTrainee wrote:Well alrighty, I have a 1500 pt 6-7 round league coming up next month. Thus far my list is
HQ;
Shas'el
-Plasma rifle
-Cyclic Ion Blaster
-Multi-tracker
-Hard-wired drone controller
-Gun drones x2

Shas'vre Bodyguard 1
-Plasma Rifle
-burst cannon
-multi-tracker
-hard-wired drone controller
-Gun drone x2

Shas'vre Bodyguard 2
-plasma rifle
-missile pod
-multi-tracker
-hard-wired drone controller
-gun drone x2
Total: 295

Elite:
Stealth Suit team x6
-Team Leader
-bonding knife
-fusion blaster
-Targeting array x6
Total: 252

Troops
Fire Warriors x8
-Shas'ui
-bonding knife
-drone controller
-gun drone x2
Total: 115

Fire Warriors x8
-Shas'ui
-bonding knife
-drone controller
-gun drones x2
Total: 115

Kroot Carnivores x10
Total: 70

Fast Attack
Pathfinders x8
-Shas'ui
-Bonding knife
Devilfish
-D-pod
-Seeker missile x2
Total: 216

Pathfinders x8
-Shas'ui
-Bonding knife
-Rail rifle x3
Devilfish
-D-pod
-Seeker missile x2
Total: 246

Heavy Support
XV-88 Broadsides x2
-Drone controller x2
-gun drone x4
-Team leader
-bonding knife
Total: 190

Absolute Total: 1499

Any suggestions on improvements on the list?

First of all, you seem to have a massive gun drone fetish, which is bad because they are terrible.

HQ: I suggest building your HQ as: CIB, PR, TA, HWMT, 2x shield drones

No drones of any kind for the bodyguard, which you shouldn't be taking...take them as normal crisis suits, bodyguard are really only for those times when you have no more room for regular suits, having used all the slots, because they are ten points more with their only advantage being a slight increase in CC ability.

Elite:

Take many, many crisis suits. Don't take stealth suits at all. If you MUST take them, take a small group, maybe three, with a Team leader with FB and a hwtl, so the rest of the unit can fire at infantry and he can fire his anti-tank gun at vehicles.

Troops:

This is not how FW are meant to be used competitively. A small unit, six, with nothing on it. Then give it a devilfish with disruption pod. Unless you intend to give them the Pathfinder Devilfish?

Kroot. Minimum and maximum sizes are best, I find. Carnivores only, so this one doesn't need changing.

Fast attack:

WAAAAAY more Pathfinder than you could possibly need. The only way to take them at a mid point level and keep them even semi-competitive is to take a minimal unit of 4, NO RAILRIFLES. This will average enough markerlight hits to bring any unit up to BS5. Only one unit of them. Also, no seeker missiles, ever. 10 points for a krak missile? NO. In fact, it is probably best to drop the pathfinders altogether, strip the FW to six men with no upgrades, and give them their own devilfish. All those point could get you a hammerhead and a whole bunch of crisis suits.

Heavy support:

Broadsides...you're doing it wrong...No gundrones, ever, anywhere in the list, ever. Take shield drones on the broadsides, and give them both either A.S.S, TA or one with TL. Also, without a hammerhead or really any anti-tank anywhere in your list, you will want a LOT more of them.

Im not completely convinced with the list if im honest, I have been playing tau for a wile now and i see alot of lists that just arent maxing the army. This is what i use

HQ
Shas'o - HWMT, HWDC, PR, MP, GD, SI, IA - 152pts
Shas'o - HWMT, HWDC, PR, MP, GD - 122pt

Elites
6 Crisis ui - 6 MP's, 4 PR's, 2 BC's, 6 MT's - 348pts
1 Crisis vre - HWDC, MT, GD, MP , BC - 70pts

Heavy

Railhead - BC, DP, MT -165pts
Ionhead - BC, DP, MT - 130pts
Broadside ui - TA - 80pts
Broadside vre - TA, HWDC, SD - 100pts

Troops
Kroot x 11 - 77pts
FWx8 - Devilfish, DP - 165pts

Fas Attach
Tetrax2 - TA - 110pts

Just a little over 1500 pts.

Some players will probs question some of the parts of this list but ill explain in advance. As for the Shas'os instead of el's. I found el's to be very nice at lower points but the added attack intiatitive and WS is useful (i know they dont want to get into combat, but if they do its nice) As for IA and SI these are just added extras which you could take off. I think it is nice to have a unit that is less squishy. Most armies have a rock hard HQ unit so its nice to have a unit who can soak some fire.

Most people favor broadsides over HH, for me it depends on opponent. I play DE and Nids alot. My Nids list wont have any broadsides in because i think its a waste. So the list above is the best of both worlds but i would say i think one HH is a must even if it is just a distraction.

FA - i used to use pathfinders and did love them dont get me wrong but then someone pointed me in the direction of tetras and i havent looked back. I annoys me when sme opponents get annoyed with Forge items but i say screw them tbh, tau need some help and tetras are awesome. 4 markers each hitting on 3's very mobile and fast. end of.

Troops- I would never tak any extras for my FW because they just arent worth it. Always have a devilfish and employ the fish of fury tactic. Kroot I love most hate but thats prefernce. For me infilrate in a top floor of a building and watch them ping shots away. Enemies tend to ignore them. If they dont ignore them who cares 77pts means the rest of your army has a turn to move.

Elites - BC and MP are the "suicide team" lots of shots lots of damage. But at higher points i love MP and PR. The damage is awesome and helps with those pesky 2+ saves. Finally i dont totally agree with no gun drones, its still a wound you can take off your suits, agreed SD are better but the my list has a few things you can easily drop to put more SDs in.

Apologies for the essay. Just giving my views and army list hope something in there gives you some ideas. I just want more tau players to win lol.

ATO

Elites - BC and MP are the "suicide team" lots of shots lots of damage. But at higher points i love MP and PR. The damage is awesome and helps with those pesky 2+ saves. Finally i dont totally agree with no gun drones, its still a wound you can take off your suits, agreed SD are better but the my list has a few things you can easily drop to put more SDs in.

...A few things you could drop...like gun drones.

Really, on your IA shas'O, you'll want two shield drones. Two drones with 2+/4++ is a lot better than one drone with 4+. Also, FNP is useless on him, it really is. Almost all weapons that commonly get directed against crisis suits are ap1-2

Won't comment on the rest of the list, I personally am not a fan, but you seem to like it so I suppose that's what matters

Yer like i said the IA and SI were just added extras that I either drop or use depending on the opponent lol. Its all cool if you dont like my list it works very well for me. Have only come across a few opponents that can handle the firepower. Most struggle to get the game up turn 5 but I am more than happy to hear suggestions its all about learning at the end of the day.

ATO

Alltheones wrote:Yer like i said the IA and SI were just added extras that I either drop or use depending on the opponent lol. Its all cool if you dont like my list it works very well for me. Have only come across a few opponents that can handle the firepower. Most struggle to get the game up turn 5 but I am more than happy to hear suggestions its all about learning at the end of the day.

ATO

Yeah, if you want to have a tough-as-nails shas'O, swapping the stimulant injector and gun drone for 2x shield drones would make him a pain in the ass for anybody.

Okay from the general consensus my list is now this
HQ:
Shas' el
-Plasma Rifle
-Cyclic Ion Blaster
-Multitracker
-HW Drone controller
-Shield drone

Total: 105

Elite:
Crisis Team x2:
-Plasma Rifle x2
-Burst cannon
-Missile pod
-Multitracker x2
Total: 120

Crisis Team x2
-Fusion Blaster x2
-Burst Cannon x2
-Multitracker x2
Total: 100

Stealth Team x3
Total: 90

Troops
Fire Warriors x6
Total: 60

Fire Warriors x6
Total: 60

Kroot Carnivore x10
Total: 70

Fast Attack
Pathfinders x6
-Devilfish
-D-pod
Total: 157

Pathfinders x6
-Devilfish
-D-pod
Total: 157

Piranha
-D-pod
-Fusion Blaster
-Targeting array
Total: 75

Heavy Support
Broadside x2
-A.S.S. x2
-Team Leader
-Bonding Knife
-HW Target Lock
-HW Drone controller
-Shield drone x2
Total: 210

Hammerhead
-Railgun
-Burst cannon
-d-pod
-multitracker
Total: 165

Hammerhead
-Ion cannon
-burst cannon
-d-pod
-multitracker
Total: 130

Absolute total 1499 out of 1500.

Things about my list, my guys are glued together rather well, so modification would be ill advised unless you highly recommend it. The other thing, I only have 2 broadsides, I don't have any more, and don't have enough extra money to buy a new one. So please bear this in mind with future advice...
Should I drop the stealth suits for another FW team?

I like the list. Before doing any more to it, I say go play a few games. There are some tweaks that could be done, but what is left is almost down to play style.

Just as an example I would beef up the Stealth team with a marker drones, and go two to 9 man FW squad. That is becuase I like the JSJ with marker lights. And I happen to like Seekers so my skimmers would probably all have one. That is just a taste thing mostly.

With Tau, half of being able to win is having an almost reflexive application of units. The best to get that is run units that you like and have a plan for.

A few things.

You may want to add a targeting array to your commander, it will make better use of his weight of fire.

Also, Fusion Blaster and Burst cannon is not the best combination. Burst cannon is for light infantry, and Fusion Blaster is for heavy armour. The issue arises because the fusion blaster will do next to nothing against light infantry (guard, orks etc.) and your BC will do literally nothing to heavy tanks.

For your first unit of crisis suits, they weapons...how are they distributed? I am hoping it is not TL plasma and a BC/MP pair...either way though, mixing weapons in crisis suits units is not advisable, but if I had to mix for some reason, this is atleast the mixed unit I would choose. Mono is best, but this is the least-bad mixed unit I can think of.

Also, stealthsuits are not very good.

You really only need one unit of pathfinders. I recommend removing the second unit to add another pair of piranhas, and you'll be able to add flechette dischargers to them too.

Ion head is kinda iffy, but by no means a terrible choice.

You may want to work the list one last time.

Way to go on trying to hijack the thread.

'Vre upgrades on b-sides? A 'Vre XV8? Ionheads? Shas'Os?

I suggest you repost your list in its own thread and we'll see just how much more dakka you can fit in. I can squeeze in 95 more points in simple demotions and wargear reductions. That's an FK or two FireStorms (minus one Fire Warrior).

*mulls it over, and decides to assist the hijack anyway*

Alltheones wrote:Im not completely convinced with the list if im honest, I have been playing tau for a wile now and i see alot of lists that just arent maxing the army.

Your list is far from maxed.

Alltheones wrote:Shas'o - HWMT, HWDC, PR, MP, GD, SI, IA - 152pts
Shas'o - HWMT, HWDC, PR, MP, GD - 122pt

Some players will probs question some of the parts of this list but ill explain in advance. As for the Shas'os instead of el's. I found el's to be very nice at lower points but the added attack intiatitive and WS is useful (i know they dont want to get into combat, but if they do its nice) As for IA and SI these are just added extras which you could take off. I think it is nice to have a unit that is less squishy. Most armies have a rock hard HQ unit so its nice to have a unit who can soak some fire.

Such a bad philosophy.
1. You don't want your shooty units tying up the enemy in h2h. You want them to fail Morale or die round 1 of h2h, so they can be shot up on your turn. Crisis Suits should not be for tarpitting.
2. The Shas 'O's boosted WS and Att are near - worthless. He still needs 4s to hit MEqs. They'll just no longer hit you on 3s. Now he stays alive longer with his extra wound and might hold on with the better leadership. All of which is bad.

If caught, you want 'em to die! Strip down both suits to 'El, two guns, hwMT and TA (to keep BS5). No other wargear. Now you just saved enough points for a FireStorm and 10 add'l points.

If you put TAs on the 'Els to keep BS5, then you can fit in one FireKnife. If you skip TAs, then you can put in two more FireStorms (BC/MP). 'Course, by cutting 3 to 4 Fire Warriors, you can keep the Ballistic Skill 5 on your HQs.

How can you say 'no' to that?

Alltheones wrote:6 Crisis ui - 6 MP's, 4 PR's, 2 BC's, 6 MT's - 348pts
1 Crisis vre - HWDC, MT, GD, MP , BC - 70pts

Why 'Vre when Team Leader does the same for less points?

Alltheones wrote:Broadside ui - TA - 80pts
Broadside vre - TA, HWDC, SD - 100pts

Again, why 'Vre when Team Leader does the same for a few less points?

Alltheones wrote:Troops- I would never tak any extras for my FW because they just arent worth it. Always have a devilfish and employ the fish of fury tactic. Kroot I love most hate but thats prefernce. For me infilrate in a top floor of a building and watch them ping shots away. Enemies tend to ignore them. If they dont ignore them who cares 77pts means the rest of your army has a turn to move.

Field 6, 9 or 12 FWs. At 6 FWs, Morale occurs at 2 dead. Starting with 9 guys, it takes 3 casualties to cause Morale. Once at 12, it takes 4 casualties. 8 is just a weird number considering the game mechanics for 25% casualties.

I'll play devil's advocate here and be a proponent of Gun Drones. I find shield drones are too expensive and they honestly contribute nothing but ablative wounds that counts towards your unit number.

For one Shield drone you can get two Gun Drones, and with appropriate Jump-Shoot-Jumping, they can get the +4 Universal Cover save, which makes them Shield Drones w/ a twin-linked pulse carbine for half the cost.

Broadsides will be sitting in cover anyway, which confers a +4 Cover, so why waste points on ablative wounds that give you a ++4 Invuln? Gun Drones are as dependable as Shield Drones in this edition; just sit your crisis suits behind cover or behind a Devil Fish in the assault phase and you have a ten point shield drone...

The only way to negate it is a deep striking force or barrage weapons, which in both scenarios the shield drones would likely perish from the volley of small arms fire regardless...

Fish of fury doesn't work any longer, ATO...

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:Fish of fury doesn't work any longer, ATO...

Who said anything about Fish of Fury?

KplKeegan wrote:I'll play devil's advocate here and be a proponent of Gun Drones. I find shield drones are too expensive and they honestly contribute nothing but ablative wounds that counts towards your unit number.

For one Shield drone you can get two Gun Drones, and with appropriate Jump-Shoot-Jumping, they can get the +4 Universal Cover save, which makes them Shield Drones w/ a twin-linked pulse carbine for half the cost.

Broadsides will be sitting in cover anyway, which confers a +4 Cover, so why waste points on ablative wounds that give you a ++4 Invuln? Gun Drones are as dependable as Shield Drones in this edition; just sit your crisis suits behind cover or behind a Devil Fish in the assault phase and you have a ten point shield drone...

The only way to negate it is a deep striking force or barrage weapons, which in both scenarios the shield drones would likely perish from the volley of small arms fire regardless...

I see what you are saying the main strengths behind the shield drones is they take the toughness and save if their owner. The gun drone having only a 3 can bite you in the rear if you have bad luck on the wound allocation and end up having the majority of your squad being the drones. Though personally I like them, but what not many people seem to see us their use as their own squad as either walking cover or cheap jsj units that can actually deal a bit of a punch when used in correlation with pathfinders. I actually did pretty good with them when I ran them, just needed them elsewhere in my army though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:Fish of fury doesn't work any longer, ATO...

Actually it does work a little bit still if done properly, not as effective as it used to be but if you use the side hatches to hide the warriors behind the bow you still give them cover from heavier arms. Though it can still be easy pickings for more punch happy commanders, but nothing a well placed flèchette discharger can't assist with.

And if you put a guy behind each spot where the engine attaches to the fuseloge you still have unit coherency