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We've all seen a million threads about the 40k side. Anything about fantasy out there? Results, finals, pictures, etc? I am definitely a fantasy player before round basing but can't find anything on what was still a big event even if there aren't 18 threads dedicated to trolling about it.

http://iwfb.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=3
Local discussion about the WFB tournaments at Adepticon.

Results will eventually be posted on http://www.adepticon.org/ under Past Coverage/Adepticon 2012

The fantasy tournament was almost the mirror opposite of the strengths of the 40k tournament. The 40k tournament was a smooth, well oiled machine. The fantasy tournament ... it's being reported that we won't have results for two weeks! This is not a knock on the people that were there - they were simply understaffed. I felt terrible for the woman who has having to enter in all the data for the championship tournament on Saturday. What's worse was that they were trying to enter the data on Sunday morning on the same computer that they were trying to run the team tournament. It just wasn't feasible. I understand this is a massive fantasy tournament, but it's still frustrating. Now that I'm hearing it will be weeks before we get results, I'm probably going to send something to the Adepticon staff, because this was the only frustrating part of an otherwise excellent experience for me.

I'd be pretty upset if I paid to attend a tournament like Adepticon, participated in the fantasy tourney, and left without knowing if I even won. I've heard nothing but great things about Adepticon to this point. If they can't handle running the fantasy event perhaps they should drop it and focus on what they are getting right.

TimmyMWD wrote:The fantasy tournament was almost the mirror opposite of the strengths of the 40k tournament. The 40k tournament was a smooth, well oiled machine. The fantasy tournament ... it's being reported that we won't have results for two weeks! This is not a knock on the people that were there - they were simply understaffed. I felt terrible for the woman who has having to enter in all the data for the championship tournament on Saturday. What's worse was that they were trying to enter the data on Sunday morning on the same computer that they were trying to run the team tournament. It just wasn't feasible. I understand this is a massive fantasy tournament, but it's still frustrating. Now that I'm hearing it will be weeks before we get results, I'm probably going to send something to the Adepticon staff, because this was the only frustrating part of an otherwise excellent experience for me.

I have similar feelings. There were about 8 of us that went out together and played in the event. Most went 2-2 or 3-1. I had no illusions of winning, but a hell of a lot of the fun is talking about your games, seeing how you ranked, what your paint score was and how to improve, etc. Playing 4 games is fun, but I can do that without a 12 hour drive each way.) Posting scores in a timely manner is essential to running a good tournament.

I know the work involved. I've run many GT's, and a huge amount of smaller events. Being organized and doing the work ahead of time will cut out 3 times as much work on the day of the tournament. This allows you to not be nearly so hassled, and to post scores, rankings, pairings etc. on time, and not drag out the results for days or weeks.

I wanted to talk about the tournament that night in the bar, not two weeks later.

Adepticon was a blast. Looking forward to it next year. But some parts of the WFB champs make me pause, as does my second game in the ''Friendly 40k", against a tooled up GK player who 'Didn't read the rules, and didn't know I was supposed to bring a non-competitive list." I've got no problem playing his list - but I read the event description and brought a toned down list with some crap units to screw around and have fun. Killing one razorback and getting tabled in 45 minutes isn't something I need to drive 12 hours for. By contrast, my other two opponents were a blast to play, and we had a lot of fun.

There really is no excuse for a two week gap to post results. They made a mistake being understaffed during the tournament and are making a second mistake by being understaffed in inputting the data after the tournament.

The LEAST you can do after a data input snafu is to work some overtime to get the results entered in a timely manner after the event.

Two weeks is utterly ridiculous. Adepticon is a serious business. If you can't run the tournament like a professional, let someone else do it. I'm not trying to be mean, but after this many years, how can you not get it right???

Ok. Hold on a second.

AdeptiCon is not serious business. It's a hobby for us the organizers and volunteers. I just now got the trailer unloaded, still have to unload the van and get the seats back into for my wifes van to use this weekend. Personally I am recovering from the back log at my real life job from taking 2 weeks of PTO off to host and run AdeptiCon. We used to wait WEEKS for GT results. So please give folks a few days to sort out things.

I heard 1 issue with the WFB side all weekend with giving out awards Saturday night. I'll look into these issues and they will be resolved in a timely manner. If we had issues, they will be addressed for next year. Like we have always done.

As far as staff. WFB has been run with similar staff now from years. The difference might be software, mission and scoring changes, new staff, etc.. We will need to review it and see where the issues exist.

I'll say this much... I never have trouble finding people on the 40K side of the community to step up and help run the 40K side of the events. The WFB side is a totally different matter. We have been looking for a WFB terrain coordinator for 2 years now. Not sure why that is the case but it's been that way for ten years so I give some credit to the folks that do.

Ok, I just visted IWFB website to look at the source for the 2 week post time.

Neither, myself, Matt or any of the organizers with the AdeptiCon WFB events said it would take 2 weeks to post results.

Since Matt has posted all the other results to date. I expect that WFB results will be up shortly.

muwhe wrote:Ok. Hold on a second.

AdeptiCon is not serious business. It's a hobby for us the organizers and volunteers. I just now got the trailer unloaded, still have to unload the van and get the seats back into for my wifes van to use this weekend. Personally I am recovering from the back log at my real life job from taking 2 weeks of PTO off to host and run AdeptiCon. We used to wait WEEKS for GT results. So please give folks a few days to sort out things.

I heard 1 issue with the WFB side all weekend with giving out awards Saturday night. I'll look into these issues and they will be resolved in a timely manner. If we had issues, they will be addressed for next year. Like we have always done.

As far as staff. WFB has been run with similar staff now from years. The difference might be software, mission and scoring changes, new staff, etc.. We will need to review it and see where the issues exist.

I'll say this much... I never have trouble finding people on the 40K side of the community to step up and help run the 40K side of the events. The WFB side is a totally different matter. We have been looking for a WFB terrain coordinator for 2 years now. Not sure why that is the case but it's been that way for ten years so I give some credit to the folks that do.

Ok, I just visted IWFB website to look at the source for the 2 week post time.

Neither, myself, Matt or any of the organizers with the AdeptiCon WFB events said it would take 2 weeks to post results.

Since Matt has posted all the other results to date. I expect that WFB results will be up shortly.

As a TO myself, I understand completely where you're coming from. The perspective that I think Leenus and others is coming from is that of a paying customer: you take time off from work, pay the costs of transportation and hotel, put hours into getting your army ready (both painting and practice games), and then to not know the results is a bit of a let down. Even if the results won't take two weeks (it's already a week), people left Adepticon without knowing the winners of the Fantasy Championships. I was 2-1 going into the final round, so I was out, but three guys in our group were 3-0 going into that last round, and had any of them won and gone 4-0 you better believe we would've been making a much stronger case for voicing our frustration.

My goal in bringing this up (and I addressed this issue privately as well), is the constructive intent that there not be a repeat of these problems next year. And the problems were beyond the Saturday awards (which weren't even ready when my car of folks left at noon on Sunday), or the lack of post tournament postings, there were other administrative issues too.

I offered to help log / tabulate data next year, and I know there are other people that would probably help as well - the number of old Outriders at Adepticon was astounding, for example.

TimmyMVD,

The constructive feedback is helpful and rest assured that we will be looking into and resolving what needs to be done.

Thank you

The core issue is that it's highly frustrating to spend $600 to $700 on the weekend and take 2 vacation days from work to attend a tournament and not have it run smoothly.

As mikhaila said, we can all stay at home and save the time/money if we just want to play some random games. I don't think it's asking too much to have the tournament run smoothly, and I don't think it's fair to say the event is a "hobby" when you're charging real money and people are using real time to attend.

With that said, it's good that you guys see that there's an issue and will work towards addressing it. Adepticon is a great event and I really enjoy it. It's not the end of the world that the scores are delayed, but it turns an amazing weekend into one that has a bit of a sour aftertaste. However, I've heard the "we will fix it next time" all too often in the GT scene and been let down too many times. If you really believe the tournament will run smoothly next year, give us a money-back guarantee. If there's a scoring delay/mixup (whatever parameters you want to define), give us the tournament entrance back.

Also, if you really are having trouble staffing up the tournament to run it properly, increase the entrance fee by $5-$10 and pay someone to run it. I'd gladly pay an additional $5 on my total weekend cost of $600 to have no hiccups.

[Disclaimer. Please note there is no anger / rage in my tone. I am just trying to describe why I'm frustrated. I'd prefer to discuss it in person, but we are too far apart!]

The remaining WFB awards were announced on Sunday during the awards ceremony after the WFB Team Tournament (around 4:30ish I believe).

We have been in touch with the WFB organizers and I am expecting spreadsheet results tonight or first thing tomorrow. I'll get them in table format and uploaded to the site as soon as I get them.

We have traditionally been very good about posting results for all systems/games within the first 4-5 days after the convention wraps up. We encourage our TO's to verify event results before making them public, as published errors cause even more of an uproar. If that takes and extra day or two, then I support the TO that requires it. This '2 weeks' idea was propagated by someone who is not a WFB organizer, nor involved with the AdeptiCon website. It was a best-guess statement, with no factual basis that I am aware of.

sent via PM.

muwhe wrote:Leenus

Feel free to give me a call REDACTED

you sure you want your number not in PM?

And people still play fantasy??!

but seriously... whens 9th ed?

@Walls -

Here is some WFB coverage with some nice shots of some of the armies in attendance.

http://4thcompanyultra.blogspot.com/2012/04/adepticon-results.html

Well, I had a long post typed out about this and then my computer crashed, probably for the best so I can be briefer . (Edit- this one turned out long, too!)

I had the best time I've ever had in this hobby at Adepticon, and I played in both fantasy (Big Brawl) and 40k (Team Tourney) events. That the main organizer (muwhe = Hank, right?) would post his number to someone with a concern on a forum just drives home how much care I felt was put into the event.

However, as a constructive criticism, it is undeniable that the 40k side outshone the fantasy in several regards, including terrain, organization, and availability of staff when there was a need. However, it sounds like these are already issues that you're aware of / have worked to address for years.

For terrain, the 40k tables were just jaw-droppingly good, but then again its' terrain types lend themselves to being much more impressive, whereas fantasy terrain has to be flat and able to put movement trays on.

For the other issues raised, I don't know what the organizers can necessarily do about game balance. One of the guys we were with mentioned facing GK purifiers in a 250 point kill team and not enjoying it, but without blocking certain lists, I'm not sure what the organizers can do about that.

This got rather long, so to summarize:

1) Just an amazing time for me, an A+ event!
2) The fantasy event I attended I would give a solid B+... just not quite as well organized, and the terrain wasn't the jaw-dropping quality seen on the 40k side
3) Some of the frustration I heard I believe belongs to game balance rather than organization, but both could use improvement on the fantasy side, and you can only control one

I really, really hope I can make it next year! Will probably be giving fantasy a pass, though- again more due to the game wearing on me than the event, but I do hope the comments help make that part of the event as incredibly strong as the others that I participated in were.

From the WFB Organizer over on IWFB, referencing some over-the-top/rude comment made on that board:

Scores are getting turned in tonight, should be posted soon. We apologize for the delay, but we want to make sure all results are clear and easy to understand.

Future reference, contacting the TO directly will produce a more positive response. We understand you guys want results, and we want you to get them as soon as possible. While we take offense to the above comment, we understand the frustration and are working to have this taken care of. We appreciate your patience and apologize again.

All is well, and honestly faster than any other year save 2011...

As I said before, I 100% support clarity and double-checking of results/formulas before posting anywhere. 2011 and 2012 have been the only years we have posted full 40K scoring breakdowns onsite the night of the event. Some may recall we had a formula error in the Best Team Sportsmen calculation during the 40K Team Tournament last year...it was caught and the wronged Team was compensated for the mistake. Not that I think this is necessarily happening in this thread, but anyone who thinks we do not care about this convention, your enjoyment of this convention or the integrity of our tournaments has no idea what AdeptiCon is about.

We are not interested in creating a producer/consumer relationship with our attendees. AdeptiCon is a communal effort, from the volunteer to the attendee to the sponsor...we fully recognize that everyone puts in a considerable effort in their own way and together we make AdeptiCon what it is. Be it volunteers, an effort like Privateer Press' swag bag giveaways, your own individual hobby effort or even the distance people travel creating a varied community - it is all vastly important to the general atmosphere and presentation of the convention. Attendee feedback is always a motivating factor in shaping things to come. Attendees becoming volunteers and/or bringing their friends back the following year is how events get started and grow. Hank and I, as are most of our event organizers, are available year-round to answer questions, discuss concerns/ideas and find ways to increase everyone's enjoyment (ourselves included). Our primary concern is not giving you your money's worth - in our experience, that quickly follows the simple act of recognition and respect of effort.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Results have been posted (to be found under Past Coverage --> AdeptiCon 2012). Just waiting on award category winners for Championships and Team Tournament.

Fantasy results are up.. Glad they got posted since now I know I will not be playing in any Fantasy Events next year. My full painted Skaven army including a big ass hellpit/steamtank conversions, a display board, multiple flocks and some freehand and highlighting was apparently only worth a 14/25 painting points to the judges when you get 12 painting points for having your army above the 3 color min.

We also had one guy in our group with his army way above the 3 color min, a display board, multiple flocks and some highlighting and conversion somehow received only a 10/25 on his painting score which is impossible to receive.

I truly do hope they can get the kinks worked out for next year, but I do know that it was mine and a few others first fantasy experience at adepticon and it will probably be our last fantasy experience at adepticon. Pretty sure next year most of us will stick to 40k or Warmachine.

Agree wholeheartedly with Matthias about the "communal" aspect of Adepticon, rather than strict producer/consumer. I saw sooooo many of the top players helping out as organizers / judges / etc on the days when they did not have events scheduled. In fact, that post has me considering volunteering to help with the fantasy side next year... problem being, I don't know if I can stomach the darn game anymore . 8th edition is just such a downer for me from a competitive standpoint!

I will mull it over, though, and hopefully some others can step up and help make the fantasy portion of the event as amazing as everything else was (and I personally thought it was already quite good, but with room for improvement, which I honestly couldn't think of any for the other things I participated in- they were That good!).

What's that expression, "Be the change you want to see in the world", or something? Let's see if some folks can step up and help work out these kinks for next year.

As for painting scores- that's unfortunately quite a subjective thing, I don't know if I've ever been to an event where everyone agreed with the score they got... but, obviously, isanti13's do sound like an aberration that should be addressed.

I mentioned this earlier, but with all the ties in the results for fantasy, making it clear what the tiebreakers were (as it was extremely clear in the 40k events, or at least I thought) would be a really good idea for the future.

In closing, cheers to the fantasy organizers of Adepticon for the very Clear amount of hard work they were putting in, and here's hoping things can go a bit smoother next year, perhaps with a bit of help from folks who want to see it become even better

Isnti, do you have pics of those armies? I'd like to see them and use their scoring card on them myself.

I swear this isn't a "pix or no happen" thing. I'm going to be judging some paint scores in the future at our Oklahoma Invitationals and I'd like to use your stuff as a guideline, since it sounds like a lot of unrecognized work.

Here's some pics of his army from a GT last June, I'm sure he'll post something himself:



Here's his abom - don't know how'd you miss this one

Thunderfrog wrote:Isnti, do you have pics of those armies? I'd like to see them and use their scoring card on them myself.

I swear this isn't a "pix or no happen" thing. I'm going to be judging some paint scores in the future at our Oklahoma Invitationals and I'd like to use your stuff as a guideline, since it sounds like a lot of unrecognized work.

If I can find my camera I can take some better pictures than the ones posted above. The pictures posted above should easily show that army gets way more than a 14/25.

Quick question on the Adepticon tournaments and whatnot..

Does everything have to be a GW model or converted from GW models? ith GW pulling out as a sponsor I wasn't sure.


@ Isanti. You definately hit the minimum widgets and shouldn't have gotten a 14.

Thunderfrog wrote:Quick question on the Adepticon tournaments and whatnot..
Does everything have to be a GW model or converted from GW models? ith GW pulling out as a sponsor I wasn't sure.

RiTides' 40k army contained Starship Trooper and Dreamforge models, I don't think there were any GW models in his army...

I don't think that's ever been the case (that all models Have to be GW) but I got permission for the models that I used ahead of time (at least the dreadnoughts, as they were quite large).

I don't think GW not sponsoring tournies this year would affect things one way or the other, though, as they're independent already.

I was thinking about playing in a WFB event next year (and might do so if Dwarfs get a new book, no idea where they are on the timeline though). I might just end up doing 40K again and some Hordes, and then do some volunteering for WFB instead. I enjoyed the heck out of my first Adepticon, so I would like to contribute a bit.

Having attended Adepticon after a relatively long hiatus it is morphing more and more in a 40K focused event. Fantasy went into the side room with the likes of Flames of War, Infiniti, Privateer Press Games and I think we shared a room with Malifaux? I think..

It is what is, but I dont think I will be going back for the no comp, Ard Boyz style shenanigans I witnessed when 2013 rolls around. If I do, I definitely wont be playing WH Fantasy.

RiTides wrote:I don't think that's ever been the case (that all models Have to be GW) but I got permission for the models that I used ahead of time (at least the dreadnoughts, as they were quite large).

I don't think GW not sponsoring tournies this year would affect things one way or the other, though, as they're independent already.

Up until ~two or three years ago (IIRC) they were very strict about GW stuff in the GW events. Scratchbuilds and third-party were allowed for units GW didn't sell models for, but they were pretty strict other that that. Back then GW used to send guys like Jervis Johnson and Phil Kelly over to hang out, play, and give presentations. Once GW cut off doing that stuff, I think, is when Adepticon decided there was no longer a good reason to be strict on GW model requirements.

More knowledge from Mannahnin, thank you . That's pretty interesting, since I had read prior years' model guidelines and they had sounded stricter... I'm very glad they were loosened, as my army definitely sounds like it wouldn't have been allowed back then.

And I am all for 3rd party models/manufacturers/etc (although I prefer when they have their own setting / system for the models, rather than straight ones to sub into GW games).

Californiagamer- I would've preferred some comp to the more "Ard Boyz" style fantasy events, as well... the current edition of fantasy unfortunately needs it, imo. Scooter winning the big brawl with the same Kairos-led daemons that he owns every local event with . That said, it might be a good thing to message the fantasy organizers about- it sounds like they're taking things into consideration.

Unfortunately, it's hard to make fantasy balanced these days... mikhaila has tried hard with a number of events (banning certain special characters and items, no triple specials or double rares, 400 points max per unit, etc) but there's always going to be someone's army that gets shafted by any comp, too.