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As I'm sure you know, taking certain Space Marine HQ choices infer the chapter tactics rule upon your army, replacing the combat tactics rule for all units with it.
This falls under the special rules section of the chosen characters information.

Now, Old Zogwort has an interesting ability to turn any IC in your army in to a squig, I'll quote directly from the codex here

"If the Ork player scores higher, the target model is replaced with an angry squig... It has the profile below and no wargear or special rules..."

Now the army I'm currently running is a salamanders chapter with Vulkan He'Stan as my main HQ, my friend, an ork player, has read this rule and plans to take Old Zogwort to counter my Chapter Tactics special rule

Now as I understand it, 'if you include He'stan then all ujnits in your army lose the Combat Tactics rule' instead gaining the written abilities under Vulkan's Chapter Tactics ruling

So does simply having had Vulkan in my army allow me to keep my chapter tactics as the rule simply stated that I had to include him in my army for it, or do I lose chapter tactics as it falls under my special rules, and Vulkan becomes a squig with no wargear or special rules?

You do not lose chapter tactics if he turns him into a squig.

I'm not sure about that. When squigging the rule completely disappears, unlike when he is removed as casualty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Common sense says chapter tactics should stay though.

Chapter Tactics are a perk included for the army upon including him in your force, not having him present on the battlefield. Flamers and and melta-weaponry doesn't perform better magically since Vulkan is around. Its just to represent them as a Salamander force. A poorly implemented representations at that imo. I've never had Vulkan killed, or any chapter tactic IC and had someone revoke my Chapter Tactics.

He isn't getting killed though, the Chapter Tactics rule is explicitly getting removed.

So while your army still includes Vulkan He'stan, his presence has no longer any effect.

Vulcan's chapter tactics rule says: If you include him then all units (Insert the rest of the rules by reading P.93 in the Sm dex)

So even if he is in reserves all game, only makes it on the board turn 5, and is delayed because of a mishap, chapter tactics still is there.

Ig he is turned into a Squig, then he still has been included and the chapter tactics is still in place.

But, the rule explicitly says that targeted model no longer has any special rules, including Chapter Tactics.
So if he is turned into a Squig, then he still has been include, but his inclusion has no longer a rule attached to it.

This is entirely different from reserving Vulcan or killing him, as none of those events make him lose the special rule.

Or am I missing something? If yes, what?

I think the context is being lost here, the ability says the new squig has no special rules, not that the original model no longer has them.

I fully understand the rule saying that Vulkan no longer has any rules, including Chapter Tactics however, as soon as Vulkan is in my list every unit loses combat tactics and gains chapter tactics benefits, there is no written way to reverse this so would the units not still keep chapter tactics?

The squigs rules doesnt say that it reverses the effects of any of the special rules I have, simply that they are no longer there

The way that I interpret it is that Vulkan could not give the chapter tactics rule to any NEW models that somehow entered my list AFTER he was turned in to a squig (impossible I know, but just for my point)

I believe the initial squig rule was to effect wargear and rules such as eternal warrior etc, so you didn't have a super powered squig running around the board and probably didn't take this eventuality in to account.

Inclusion rules goes into effect when you make the army list, and don't change midway through the game.

If you took this weird interpretation even further, you could Zog many of the FOC swapping special characters to break the entire army. For example, if you Zogged Draigo in a Draigowing list, the Paladins suddenly wouldn't be Troops anymore?

The only one I think this would apply to is Marneus Calgar. I don't have my codex in front of me, but I thought God of War explicitly states that while Marneus is on the table. I could be wrong however.

With the case of the other ICs for SM's, it says if they are included in the list. It makes no reference to having to survive the game for the rules to stay in effect. While the turning an IC into a squig does suck, it does not change the fact that they were included in the list at the beginning of the game.

So, I would say chapter tactics would still apply. (Except to the newly created squig).

Jidmah wrote:Or am I missing something? If yes, what?

You're missing the rule being applied before the game starts and being in place irrelevant of the ICs status.

"Replaced by a Squig with no special rules" doesn't negate a damn thing.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:"Replaced by a Squig with no special rules" doesn't negate a damn thing.

Exactly this. The model is being replaced and taken off the table. It doesn't say anything about removing special rules, just that the new replacement model doesn't have any.