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I played both Chaos Space Marines during 3.5 and 4th edition tyranids. The sheer strength of those codexs was astounding; especially relative to the Imperial codexs at the time.

For example basic Chaos Marines were cheaper than vanilla marines and could take close combat weapons. Even before you add veteran skills and marked units there was no contest in terms of close combat. For a few hundred points you could take Khorne daemon princes with 21 attacks. Chainaxes that could ignore armour n reduce armour saves. Indeed this codex is why Chaos won the Eye of terror global campaign. A huge achievement considering that they aren't even a starter army and the predominence of vanilla marine players.

Tyrnaids were near unstoppable in 4th. Genestealers were much as they always were. But Carnifexs n Hive Tyrants were incredibly cheap. Even in a thousand point army I could easily take three str10 t7 2+ armour monsters.

But with 5th the pendulum of power really has shifted towards the Imperial armies. Whilst nids n chaos had a lot of their powerful units toned down and made more expensive the exact opposite happened to Imperial codexs. Guard n marines got cheaper. Guard got more firepower with orders n barrage tanks like the manticore. Marine varients incredibly boosted the close combat power of marines, wolves getting CCW n counter attack. Thunder wolves n Blood Angels death comapny. Grey Knights, though I can only go off what I've heard are supposed to be insane rules wise. This is just my general impression and I'am not saying that certain armies weren't unplayable in any edition. But I do think that GW deliberately swung toward the Imperial factions in terms of power and decisively away from all non-Imperial armies. Dark Eldar are pretty average and Necrons have some nice kit but have built-in limitations like low I n ws.

In fact I'd say this disproves the idea of codex-creep since 3.5 chaos n 4th Nids did get worse than what they had been.

ps. I would, of course, sincerely applaud such design prejudices in army mechanics if they did a real SOB codex; naturally. But alas my armies at the minute are probably impinging on my opinion. I like my gribblies and having one wolf lord on thunder wolf (hereafter known as the wyrmslayer) killing two trygons and a host of stealers ain't on.

Most of the recent codexes were apparently "Written with 6th edition in mind". This may well explain why some units seem to be strangely overpowered, while others dont appear to have any real use at all. Rules changes in 6th edition can very well completely change the abilities and uses of different armies and units.

As an example, check out the "Patch up" rule in the supposedly leaked 6th ed. codex. It would potentially change GK paladins from exploitable powerhouses, into...well, really good terminators, which is what they are supposed to be.
So I would say wait until 6th edition comes out before you write off any of the more recent codexes..

Although on a seperate note, isnt the Chaos codex the oldest one around at the moment? I'd heard its liked to be one of the first ones released after 6th edition hits the shelves, and I wouldnt be surprised if they get their own brand of crazy new units.

And then they will be touted at the new "OP" army, and everyone will hate them. Until people figure out how to beat them. And then the next new OP army will be released. And so the wheel of time turns.

I don't think GW write codexes with the current edition in mind, let alone the next edition.

I find it hard to believe that Imperial guard and Space Wolves the second and third armies of 5th were made with the next edition in mind? Also I'am more refering to points, weapons and stats. A new edition could make a big difference in terms of cheap vehicles. If, for example, it became easier to destroy those light vehicles it would counteract their sudden cheapness. Also, Dark Eldar and Necrons to my knowledge never displaced wolves n guard n Grey knights as being considered OP. Chaos may be different, since if any army deserves to be marines+1 it is them.

Tyrnaids were near unstoppable in 4th. Genestealers were much as they always were. But Carnifexs n Hive Tyrants were incredibly cheap. Even in a thousand point army I could easily take three str10 t7 2+ armour monsters.

Those were nothing compared to Tri-Falcon Eldar and the Fish of Fury Tau.

Gotta love those, annoying rules those skimmers had back than.

Totalwar1402 wrote:I find it hard to believe that Imperial guard and Space Wolves the second and third armies of 5th were made with the next edition in mind? Also I'am more refering to points, weapons and stats. A new edition could make a big difference in terms of cheap vehicles. If, for example, it became easier to destroy those light vehicles it would counteract their sudden cheapness. Also, Dark Eldar and Necrons to my knowledge never displaced wolves n guard n Grey knights as being considered OP. Chaos may be different, since if any army deserves to be marines+1 it is them.

Sorry, dunno if I was unclear, but I meant the more recent codexes... I believe they were Necron and Grey knights? And Dark Eldar before that I think?

the grey knights "opness" will be corrected pretty soon I reckon, and considering most of the OP stuff is just people exploiting rules against the spirit of the game I tend to just ignore it anyway. I dont know about the space wolves stuff though.

Anyway, I thought dark eldar were considered pretty good atm? *shrug* I generally dont follow the "tiers" thing, I started collecting them during the last edition so I never really kept track.

However as far as the whole "next edition in mind" thing, there are a few things that stand out as being a bit strange. Paladins crazy wound allocations I certainly disagree with (and im a grey knight player lol), which very quickly changed if wounds are allocated in armour groups instead of wargear (which is already a rumoured change).

And back to DE, the razorwing jetfighter + voidbomber..... Its got less weapons than a ravager, for more points, but it has missiles, but the ravager has better armour... in pretty much any build the ravager wins out, so why bother creating new models that noone will want to use? Of course if GW change the ruling for Supersonic (or flyers, for that matter) suddenly they may be able to sell a load of £40 models to hungry dark eldar players, without effecting the rules for any of the standard vehicles, or needed to make any changes to the points or wargears.

Of course this is all just arguement, speculation, and playing devils advocate. Only the bigwigs in the secret Games Workshop command bunker, buried deep under the sacred soil of Nottingham, know what is really going to happen.

And I doubt they read Dakka. The internet cant penetrate their dastardly lair.

Plus they have more trolls than we do.

Niiru wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:I find it hard to believe that Imperial guard and Space Wolves the second and third armies of 5th were made with the next edition in mind? Also I'am more refering to points, weapons and stats. A new edition could make a big difference in terms of cheap vehicles. If, for example, it became easier to destroy those light vehicles it would counteract their sudden cheapness. Also, Dark Eldar and Necrons to my knowledge never displaced wolves n guard n Grey knights as being considered OP. Chaos may be different, since if any army deserves to be marines+1 it is them.

the grey knights "opness" will be corrected pretty soon I reckon, and considering most of the OP stuff is just people exploiting rules against the spirit of the game I tend to just ignore it anyway. I dont know about the space wolves stuff though.

Anyway, I thought dark eldar were considered pretty good atm?

And back to DE, the razorwing jetfighter + voidbomber..... Its got less weapons than a ravager, for more points, but it has missiles, but the ravager has better armour... in pretty much any build the ravager wins out, so why bother creating new models that noone will want to use? Of course if GW change the ruling for Supersonic (or flyers, for that matter) suddenly they may be able to sell a load of £40 models to hungry dark eldar players, without effecting the rules for any of the standard vehicles, or needed to make any changes to the points or wargears.

Yeah, Necron destroyers getting preferred enemy is a good example my mate keeps pointing out.

Dark Eldar have some major issues like exp transports, questionable CC units and being so vulnerable to enemy shooting. Overall this makes them well-balanced since they have a lot of mobile shooting.

They cost more because those missiles are large blast weapons (the dark eldars only source of them in fact). Since you can have all four of them fire at once it can be terrifyingly effective against hoards. Ravager is useful as an anti heavy infantry and anti-tank platform.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Yeah, Necron destroyers getting preferred enemy is a good example my mate keeps pointing out.

Dark Eldar have some major issues like exp transports, questionable CC units and being so vulnerable to enemy shooting. Overall this makes them well-balanced since they have a lot of mobile shooting.

They cost more because those missiles are large blast weapons (the dark eldars only source of them in fact). Since you can have all four of them fire at once it can be terrifyingly effective against hoards. Ravager is useful as an anti heavy infantry and anti-tank platform.

We can but hope that the new rules make the expense of DE transports a bit better, but they are already pretty good so im not gonna complain either way. But yeh I already plan to use razorwings either way, just because I like the idea of a superfast dark eldar attack force. I just know that generally, people prefer to take ravagers.