Do robots have souls right away, or only later?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Kitzz**

A model with a soul trap kills a necron independent character.

What happens?

**Happyjew**

Fluff-wise nothing, as Necrons don't have souls (anymore).Game-wise, whatever the rules for soul-trap state happens.

**Kitzz**

The rules for soul trap state that when a model carrying it kills an independent character, it takes a leadership test. If it passes, its strength is doubled for the rest of the game.

**DeathReaper**

Kitzz wrote:The rules for soul trap state that when a model carrying it kills an independent character, it takes a leadership test. If it passes, its strength is doubled for the rest of the game.

Then that is exactly what happens when it kills a Necron IC.

Why would it do something different?

Do Necrons have rules preventing its use?

**Kitzz**

Ever-living.

**Moderas**

I think the question is does the soul trap effect happen before or after the ever living roll is made. I would say yes as you kill the character first and then he can test to stand back up at the end of the phase.

**DeathReaper**

As long as the model is killed (Removed from play) then he gets the Strength bonus.

**Happyjew**

See now, if you had asked that to begin with, we could have started the 20-page argument a little earlier. RAW I have no freakin' idea.

HIWPI, Leadership test taken at the end of the phase, if the IC does not manage to stand back up.

**Kitzz**

So does he get it immediately, or after the necron fails its reanimation roll?

Apologies if I was unclear with my original question.

**Moderas**

Depends who you ask, I guess.

DE side: You leadership test as soon as the model goes to 0 wounds. After the assault phase the ever living model gets its roll to see if it can stand back up and resume fighting.

Necron side: The model is never "dead" until it fails the ever living roll, regardless of it being at 0 wounds for a time.

**THE_GODLYNESS**

Q: When does a unit with Power from Pain gain a pain
token for destroying a model/unit with the ability to
return to play. For example a Necron with the We’ll be
Back special rule. (p25)
A: The model/unit must be completely destroyed so the
unit will only gain a pain token once the model/unit is
completely removed from play. In the case of a
Necronunit, a pain token will be generated once a unit
has been destroyed (even if some of its models have
returned into other nearby units).

personally i would use this premise but that is just me

edit: i know it says WBB and all, but if a everliving stands back up the unit is not destroyed. lets say a cryptek.

but for soul drain or whatever only works on thing with everliving i would still use this premise

**Kitzz**

Oh, also:

What if the squad with the soul trap consolidates away, and another squad consolidates toward the Necron IC, denying his ever-living roll?

Or vice versa (e.g. another squad removes the lord's last wound but the character with the soul trap consolidates with its squad to prevent the ever-living roll?

**Moderas**

Based on that FAQ it really comes down to how different the "Whenever a DE unit with this rule destroys a non-vehicle unit" for Power from Pain and the "Whenever the bearer kills an enemy IC or MC" for soul trap are in terms of wording.

**Mannahnin**

Based on the FAQ ruling on PfP, I think the most appropriate way to go is that you get the strength upgrade if the IC fails to stand up at the end of that phase; whether that's because he failed the roll, or because you blanketed the spot with models and he had no legal spot to stand up, or whatever.

**kmdl1066**

Happyjew wrote:Fluff-wise nothing, as Necrons don't have souls (anymore).

Total thread derail: Fluff-wise (or I suppose anti-fluff-wise) I would love to do a Necron army made up of Benders and other Futurama robots.

**kNyne83**

the title of this thread made me laugh lol

**Lightning Shadows**

Basically, this can affect fluff for necrons for other stuff e.g. mind war, noise marines etc.

Basically, key systems are over-rode and the machine powers down. However, if this is used on a character with Ever-living, and he comes back to life, can the bearer of the soul trap take him out again (effectively quadrupling strenght) ???

**Happyjew**

And this is why most people are agreeing that you wait til after EL roll to see if the model "dies" or not, before you roll for double strength.

**The Infinite**

I'd definitely side with the "wait till after he fails/cannot pass an EL roll".
If only because the other way would make it legal for things like power from pain to stack up by you beating the same model to the floor repeatedly, which the Dark Eldar FAQ indicates is not intended.

**Akroma06**

First off the rules don't allow you to wait until the EL roll. You have to roll then. The model is killed and replaced with a marker. That's how EL and reanimation protocals works. Since the model is removed he is dead thus allowing the soul trap to attempt to double its user's strength. Now can this be done over and over yes to a max of S10 for the DE.

Just as a side note...yes I do play DE, but no I don't use soul traps or huskblades so this doesn't affect me. I also have a cron army and that is how I would play it as them too.

**rigeld2**

Akroma06 wrote:First off the rules don't allow you to wait until the EL roll. You have to roll then. The model is killed and replaced with a marker. That's how EL and reanimation protocals works. Since the model is removed he is dead thus allowing the soul trap to attempt to double its user's strength. Now can this be done over and over yes to a max of S10 for the DE.

It's debatable using RAW - but in this case, using PfP as a precedent, RAI you're absolutely wrong.