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Prone does NOT take away LoS. It only makes you smaller to take advantage of smaller cover. You only become as high as your base is wide. So you can still shoot, get shot, discovered, move half your 1st movement. My friend and I forgot about this a while ago. It will of course block LoS if the cover the same height as your base is wide. Also, you can use prone and get cover on an object that is taller than the enemy. ie on top of a building that has no roof edge to hide behind. You can gain cover from those below you but not at the same level or higher.

I've always read "height of his base" as base thickness (3-4mm), not base width (25mm). And this can easily take away LOS if there's any low terrain.

From the wiki : A figure in Prone Stance is considered to be the height of his base.

MarcoSkoll wrote:I've always read "height of his base" as base thickness (3-4mm), not base width (25mm). And this can easily take away LOS if there's any low terrain.

So have I.

Base height =/= base width as height.
Base height is 3mm for a regular slottabase (2mm for the 40mms that come with REMs, TAGs and bikes - but none of those can go prone).

Lol they would become a chipmunk to be that small. Pretty much the consensus was that it's mixed up. They meant the height of the figure becomes that.

Yeah, I believe they mean the height of the base when the figure is laying prone, as opposed to base thickness. Though some exception might have to be used for the Zouave Sappers.

chromedog wrote:

MarcoSkoll wrote:I've always read "height of his base" as base thickness (3-4mm), not base width (25mm). And this can easily take away LOS if there's any low terrain.

So have I.

Base height =/= base width as height.
Base height is 3mm for a regular slottabase (2mm for the 40mms that come with REMs, TAGs and bikes - but none of those can go prone).

Unless the wording changes I'm with this. As I can't belive "height of his base" really means "width of his base", without being fixed when the edtion change. Or that someone with a Spanish hasn't come along and said it is a miss translation. At the very least the wiki would be changed.

P.S. you don't lay your model down in Infinity, you place a marker buy the rules.

CDK wrote:Lol they would become a chipmunk to be that small.

And they'd have to be very rotund to be 25mm tall when prone. And as Noir says, you don't lie the figure down, you use prone markers.

If a model is 32mm tall normally, being a tenth of that when prone isn't that far off. I'm 6' 2", but when prone, I can crawl under an 8-9 inch gap without too much trouble. That's about 12% of my height, a very similar percentage.

If nothing else, it'd get REALLY daft with any of the models on 40mm bases, which would get taller when prone.

Agreed with MarcoSkoll.
Prone is prone, not crouching.

A prone character would make all the effort to conform to cover nearby, so base-height makes sense.

Mechanically, it would be too awkward to make their height an invisible 25mm as opposed to simply the base itself.

Oo? When you are prone you are literally the size of your base, period. You basially pretend that the miniture portion of the model is gone and all that is there is you base. This is demonstrated by the official pictures on the wiki...

http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Cover

Yep, the models takes up the volume of it's base, ignoring the model on the base entirely.

Note that in some cases (the base sticks out around the corner but the model doesn't) going prone can bring you into LoF when you weren't before...

Well I bring this up to the guys. We all agreed that you can only take advantage of cover if it's the same height as your base is wide. Any less than that and you don't get out of LoS. Otherwise you can use very little things for it. One guy tried using the edge of a street as cover and out of LoS. In real life it would be less than 6 inches tall! I'm sorry but that's not cover and certainly does not block LoS.

Are you still talking about prone models?

For standing models you need something that is at least knee-high to the model to claim cover behind.

For prone models I'd certainly class a tall drop at the edge of the pavement as cover from the right direction.

Claiming cover while prone has the exact same requirements as while standing. You must be in BtB contact with terrain that is at least knee height. Prone also has the exception that if you are above eye level height from the attacker you have cover.

In the silly situation where you can't see a single portion of a prone model's base because it is blocked by the edge of a street (that would have to be one hell of an angle or both models prone) then yes the model would be in total cover. While it wouldn't make 100% sense in that situation it is the most clear way to abstract a model laying down, without actually having the model lay down.

Yes, I'm talking about Prone and LoS. We have that if it was knee height before it's now out of LoS if prone. If the cover is half your base width while prone you have cover but NOT out of LoS.

In the below image A. with Prone would get you Cover but not Out of LoS (I don't think it should get either). B.-E. with Prone would be Cover and Out of LoS.

In that diagram, being prone for situation A will put the model in total cover, with no ambiguity whatsoever.

No LoS behind a solid object = total cover.

This thread is more confusing than helping...
So, which is it? The way I read it, you basically ignore the mini for the purposes of cover and LoS. Instead, you just use the base.
... Right?

The CF wrote:This thread is more confusing than helping...
So, which is it? The way I read it, you basically ignore the mini for the purposes of cover and LoS. Instead, you just use the base.
... Right?

Right.

Since we don't play tournies we'll probably stick to what we do. None of us believe a roadside curb is going to give cover or make the figure out of LoS.

K to break it down for everyone.

When prone your models size simply becomes it's base. You ignore the model for LoF purposes, however for cover you still have to be in BtB with something knee high on the model. If you are prone on a higher elevation then the eye level of the shooter then you also have cover.

Total cover AKA out of LoF is if you can't see the model you are trying to attack. A street curb would be EXTREMELY difficult to block LoF because even standing around a guy will typically have LoF to a least a piece of the base. If you are prone up against a street curb that is the height of your base, you are not in cover, because you have not met the requirement of terrain that is at least knee height.

BlueDagger wrote:K to break it down for everyone.

When prone your models size simply becomes it's base. You ignore the model for LoF purposes, however for cover you still have to be in BtB with something knee high on the model.

Now that's confusing to me. In order to be in cover while prone, you have to be in base contacts with a terrain piece at least of knee-height?
I mean, wouldn't that take you out of LoF in almost every case? Because the base wont be visible at all behind the terrain piece...
Or am I missing something here?

I have to be honest, I can't find any wording that says it has to be knee high, only that it has to cover a significant-ish proportion of the model. The QRS guideline might be interpretable as knee-height, but it certainly isn't explicit.
It could be interpreted pretty daft if it was defined only by height rather than covered area - else a model having his toe hidden while looking around a building would in theory count.

But if it were the case, there are examples that would apply - looking around a building corner while prone might give LoS while behind still being behind cover greater than knee height.

90% of the time if you are prone it is because you are trying to hide, otherwise you would just stand up. If you are trying to fire while prone it is likely from an elevated position.

Remember that you are considered to be your base when prone so having the edge of your base poking out of the cover will grant LoF.

What you say is true, Blue.
However, what would the case be in this scenario:
Mini A is prone behind a low wall. It is lower than knee height, but higher that the base.
Mini B stands a few inches away on the other side. He can see about half of A's base since he's looking diagonally down, but the wall covers the other half.
Is mini A...
In cover because B can only see half of his base.
Or
Not in cover because the wall is not knee-height.

I'm pretty sure it's the first option, but I just want to be sure..

MarcoSkoll wrote:I have to be honest, I can't find any wording that says it has to be knee high, only that it has to cover a significant-ish proportion of the model. The QRS guideline might be interpretable as knee-height, but it certainly isn't explicit.
It could be interpreted pretty daft if it was defined only by height rather than covered area - else a model having his toe hidden while looking around a building would in theory count.

But if it were the case, there are examples that would apply - looking around a building corner while prone might give LoS while behind still being behind cover greater than knee height.

Hmmm... knee height is always the term used however I can not find a single reference to it. I'll toss this one over on the main site and let everyone chew on it for possibly more insight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On your example I'm now inclined to believe the first option however I'm rather murky on it now.

I think it might need to be something agreed on in your group. We decided that "knee" was to arbitrary. What do you do for kneeling down figs like the Djanbazan sniper? Him and other figs are already prone!

So we decided that when they said the height of the base they meant width of the base. Which if you put it next to a fig on it's side it's almost knee height. This is like "Let's eat grandma, opposed to Let's eat, grandma" Grammar saves lives you know

I disagree about always using prone to be out of LoF. We use it many times just to take advantage of cover that you would not get if you were standing. The Prone rules say nothing about it making you out of LoF. It just allows you to take advantage of smaller terrain for cover.

CDK wrote:The Prone rules say nothing about it making you out of LoF.

It changes the assumed size of the model. This inherently affects LoF.

Anyway, the wiki is quite clear on the fact that if you can't see any of a prone model's base, you do not have LoF.

CDK wrote:I think it might need to be something agreed on in your group. We decided that "knee" was to arbitrary. What do you do for kneeling down figs like the Djanbazan sniper? Him and other figs are already prone!

You place a model in a standing pose there to see, CB suggest a LI model for this (or the same unit class if you have one in a standing pose, ie. a HI to see for a HI). Cover is not based how much of the model you see, but by a 1/5 height of a standing model. On a normal model this is about knee high, give or take a little. While prone there no hard and fast rule, but I give cover if atleast half the base in out of view.

Of course prone CAN make you out of LoF. That is a give in. But we have that the cover needs to be as high, as half base width, to make it OUT of LoF. No guessing needed. Cover still applies.

We wouldn't put another figure there because it can cause confusion. We've got kids so distraction is the name of the game

What guessing is involved with not being able to see the base at all?