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I would like to hear your opinion on this one strategy I’m planning. First of all my primary army is Haqqislam. My usual opponent (archenemy ) is playing PanO. I noticed that he heavily relies on HI (mostly knights, but he doesn’t play sectorial. I’ve been having problems dealing with this kind of list simply because he outshoots me most of the time (and partially because I roll awfully ). So I’ve been thinking how to deal with this. Basically PanO relies on two things: hi-tech gadgets and superior BS. One approach would be to try to shut down most of his hi-techish stuff with E/M ammo but that is problematic because Haqq doesn’t have many of that options and even the ones that have is short ranged. The other approach is to reduce his BS by utilizing CAMO troops as much as possible. But I still fell that that is not enough so I thought to put in a hacker or two and exploit his use of HI.
So basically list would look something like this:

HAQQISLAM
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 (Regs: 9/Irrs: 1):

GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife (13)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:10 WIP:14 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
Lieutenant

GHULAM Doctor Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife (17)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:10 WIP:14 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
Doctor

DJANBAZAN HMG / Pistol, CCW (36 | 1.5)
MOV:4-2 CC:14 BS:12 PH:11 WIP:14 ARM:2 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube
Multiterrain, Regeneration, Multispectral Visor L2

LASIQ Viral Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife (26)
MOV:4-2 CC:14 BS:12 PH:11 WIP:14 ARM:2 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
CH: Mimetism, Climbing Plus, Religious Troop, X Visor

FASSED Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW (34)
MOV:4-2 CC:15 BS:13 PH:14 WIP:14 ARM:4 BTS:-3 W:2
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube

AZRA'IL AP Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife (36 | 0.5)
MOV:4-2 CC:14 BS:13 PH:13 WIP:14 ARM:3 BTS:-3 W:2
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube

HUNZAKUT Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (21 | 0.5)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:12 WIP:14 ARM:0 BTS:0 W:1
Irregular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
CH: Camouflage, Infiltration, Deployable Repeater

TUAREG Hacker Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (42 | 1.5)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:12 WIP:15 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Hacking Device

FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW (32)
MOV:4-4 CC:17 BS:11 PH:12 WIP:15 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
Martial Arts L3, Basic Impersonation, Religious Troop

HAWWA' Hacker Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife (33 | 0.5)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:11 WIP:14 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
CH: Camouflage, Infiltration, Hacking Device


290 Points | SWC: 4.5

ARMY CODE: eNolyEEOACAIA8HX2DMtEvRvPl7By06ykyOwwBPIVxIsHFYEVOSfu6esp9RTXlwf8g9T Army Infinity v.3.0.

Two CAMO hackers, both with infiltration, would be deployed in the middle of the table (depending on the terrain). Also in the middle would be Hunzakut (also with CAMO) with deployable repeaters planting them as roses. Fiday (with Impersonation) going towards the middle with the idea to take out opportunity targets and throw smoke grenades because behind him is Djanbazan with HMG (probably close to deployment zone) who can cover Fiday and shoot thru smoke on anything that shows up. Spearhead of the attack would be Azra’il and Ghulam doctor (just in case) probably covered from the back by Lasiq on the one side. On the other side would be Fassed covered by the same Djanbazan that covers Fiday. Note that there are a lot of units with mines which I plan to use to control the board as best as possible. And in the end lonely Ghulam Lt. would stay in the back and pray that there won’t be sudden AD attack.
Possible improvements would be exchanging Fassed for Raggik with AD (I’m thinking about that…) and adding EVO Kamel remote (which I probably won’t do since I don’t have the model and I don’t like proxing ).

I would like to hear your comments and suggestions concerning strategy, list and whatever else pops to your mind.

I'm in a rush now so no time for advices, however I wanted to ascertain your opponent is not playing illegally buitl lists.7

Ender0 wrote: My usual opponent (archenemy ) is playing PanO. I noticed that he heavily relies on HI (mostly knights, but he doesn’t play sectorial.

Keep in mind this: a generic PanO list can only field up to 4 Knights, Her are the reasons behind my statement.

-PanO list is only allowed one Order Knight (AVA 1) . Teutonic Knight, Knight of Santiago, Knight of Montesa, Knight of the Holy Sepulchre and Magister Knight count as a single entry in the list, therefore you can only choose one of them when playing generic PanO.

-Hospitallier Knight has a sepparated entry, so it's possible to have one Order Knight of your choice and a Hospitallier Knight in a generic list.

-The other pair of Knight entries are the special chracters Joan of Arc and Father Officer Gabriel de Fersen.

So to sum up, the maximun number of Knights his list can include is:
-1 Joan of Arc
-1 Gabriel De Fersen
-1 Hospitallier Knight
-1 Order Knight (he must choose either a Teutonic or a Magister or a Montesa or Santiago or a Sepulchre, but only one)

In case your opponent is playing with more Knights than what I explained before and he's is not playing a MO Sectorial list, please slap him from my part, because I'm fed up of telling players to download the Army Lists PDFs and make sure they know how to build a list before they start using the Devil Team Infinity Army 3.0 online army builder.

This little guy I've seen give tons of trouble to forces with a lot of HI. He's cheap and can be affective. Three of these guys can cause a lot of trouble. That E/Marat is great for taking out those HI.

MUTTAWI´AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat / Pistol, Knife (5)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:12 WIP:15 ARM:0 BTS:0 W:1
V: Dogged, Religious Troop

Edit: Looking at it again I'm seeing how you have a lot of expensive guys and only have 9 orders and 1 irregular. You should easily outnumber him. If not doing link teams you could do coordinated orders and try to always have 2 to three guys against one if possible. This is one of the Haqqislam strengths and you should play up to that rather than trying to do the same as him. Ghulam, Naffatun, and Halqa are all good cheap Regular troops. I can't remember a time when my buddy didn't outnumber my Shasvastii or my Yu Jing.

@Janzerker
Great observation man. I really didn't pay attention to list legality (I never do that). To be honest, I'm not really sure about the number of knights but I'll definitely keep an eye on that. But the guy I play with is really ok so I doubt he would do something like that on purpose.
And please, when you have time I would really like to hear some advice from you.
@CDK
Good idea man. I've been considering them but only thing that worries me is will they be able to get to their targets and do their thing. On the other hand they are only 5 points so why not...
If you think of something else, please post.

Just edited up there. and yes they are only 5pts. and even if they die the did the job of making him use orders or distraction.

Muyibs with their mines can make quick work to a reckless Knight. Armed with a DEP, they can shut down one at longer range.

@CDK
Great point, man. I initially avoided having more than two battle groups because it was difficult for me to manage them but I guess it's all matter of practice. "Power in numbers" looks like great strategy for Haqq. I was always trying to cram as much units as possible in one battle group so that might be the problem here. PanO simply has better equipped and better armored units and in "one on one" figure they almost always win. I'll have to rethink my approach to this problem. Thanks a lot CDK. This really helped

@Absolutionis
Good suggestion Absolutionis. Muyibs are very good all around MI unit. Particularly because they have smoke grenades, mines and DEP (which is great thing to eliminate some nasty HI).

You can never go wrong with putting in a Naffatun or three. Those are the guys with Rifles and HEAVY Flamethrowers. And they cost 12 points. Good for crowd control and scare tactics, plus, if you hit a model, they catch fire, and burn till they may armor saves or die. Not to mention the Naffatun models look awesome... if you can get them.

If you're going to use an Azra'il, why not go for the Feurbach model? The guy looks awesome, and though you need to get a little close to use it, the Feurbach cuts through armor like butter, and it's a two-shot weapon.

The Tuareg is expensive for a hacker, BUT the WIP15 is awesome. I wouldn't take two hackers, and certainly not two hackers that infiltrate. I would drop the Al'Hawwa (maybe keep his model, I LOVE that model), and rely on one Hacker and the Hunzakut's Repeaters. If you really want a back-up Hacker, you can make a Ghulam or a Halqa a Hacker and hide them in a group of cheap models.

The Muyibs are awesome, incredibly tough LI. Yeah, they're LI, crazy huh? ARM 2, Dogged, Religious... I use a ton of them in my Hassassin Bahram list. The one with the DEP and the Viral Mines is spectacular for board control... Viral Mines are serious business. Just remember that though the DEP hits like a brick ****house, that it is SUPER close-range. You're getting in someone's face with that thing when you use it. You could also grab the one with the E-Maulers instad... but Viral Mines make sure people drop.

I might swap out the Lasiq with the Viral Rifle for the one with the Viral Sniper Rifle, and then use her instead of the Djanbazan with HMG. Or hell, use them both. Viral Rifles are great, but the added reach of the Sniper is spectacular. Plus the Lasiqs can climb up pretty much anything.

The Fiday is great, make sure you take the AP CCW. Then, kill the scariest unit you can get to, and take whatever crazy sword he has. Or kill the Knight that has a Missile Launcher or a Spitfire, then go crazy shredding his guys with their own weapons. If you can knock out at least two Knights before getting dropped it should be worth it. If he spreads out to stop this, then play the long game. Kill a guy, take his stuff, then try and make a break for cover so you can Re-Impersonate and go do it again. If you kill someone with a Chainrifle or a Flamethrower, all the better.


But these are just suggestions. Play it how you want to play it. Dealing with HI can be hard sometimes, but if he's really bugging you, there's no reason you can't go pick up a Maghariba and get all Ghost in the Shell on him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah... I play Haqq if that isn't obvious.

Chemical Cutthroat wrote:The Fiday is great, make sure you take the AP CCW.

Why AP CCW and not EXP CCW ?

Well, he's fighting Knights. Anything that Halves ARM is going to be useful.

The EXP CCW is good as well, but it's a little more expensive. The three Arm checks is great though.

I dunno, personal preference?

I agree with CC on the Taureg hacker. Because of of the general high WIP their cheap hackers are not bad. If you are worried about not getting close enough you can also go with a Halqa with mechanized deployment. few points cheaper. But really I wouldn't worry much about trying to hack.

Muyibs are great but also the Odalisques are awesome. No worries about the Knights with them in CC.

Oh ok =)
Thought I had missed something =P

Thanks =)

Wow, a lot of good suggestions. Thank you all. I don't have much time now but I'll go true them when I get back home tonight.

EXP CC weapon is much more effective against armour 4 than an AP CC weapon.

Chance of AP guy causing a wound if striking first due to martial arts = 17/20 * 11/20 = 46.75%
Chance of EXP guy causing a wound if striking first due to martial arts = 1 - ( 3/20 + 17/20((9/20)^3) = 77.25%
Chance of EXP guy causing 2 wounds (i.e. preventing retaliation) = 36%

Not that either is that good for 2 wound HI - but the AP one is really bad against them as you can't kill a 2-wound model with your martial arts hit meaning that he gets a normal roll back at you. And Fidays are fragile if your opponent gets to roll against them.

Fiday is not good for killing knights. However he's excellent for killing their cheer-leaders and potential LI lieutenants.

AP guy is poor at killing LI in combat, but if you take him with mines, those are great for killing LI /MI by placing a couple of them around a corner to avoid ARO, then walking out and shooting the guys in their AOE with the next order.
EXP guy is very good at killing LI in combat.

Any Fiday is also good at shooting LI to death thanks to getting to fire first.

Personally, I'd take Saladin, a Fiday (with mines, or the EXP weapon), and then a Ragik with HMG. Then if you get first turn, hammer any light infantry he has with the Fiday and possibly the Ragik. If you don't get first turn, then hold back and hit his cheer-leaders with Ragik in your turn. Keep Fiday further back in that circumstance, make him spend multiple orders just to be able to get LOS to Fiday and then still have good chance of failing discover roll - especially with lame PanO WIP.

If you can figure out who the lieutenant is from pre-game WIP stat and load-out/swc legalities then if he's LI or MI get him with the Fiday - if going first, hold the Fiday back as your reserve model to see where his stuff deploys first.

The Ragik is a good Knight killer with his HMG. Burst 4 and the Knight needs to roll 12+ to avoid taking a wound even with his armour 4. Or a 9+ if in cover.

Lasiq sniper or Djanbazan HMG should also kill a knight in a couple of orders if you can get a reasonable LOS to them. Mimetism, range and climbing plus (should always have cover in active turn) helps Lasiq get a good BS advantage. Any hit is two DMG 15 saves against mediocre knight BTS.

I'd try and hit him in the back with Ragiks and Fidays though, rather than shoot his knights. Don't fight the way he wants you to.

I'd also go for the EXP weapon over the AP one.

With PH 12 vs ARM 4 (and ignoring crits), the AP weapon has a 50% of causing one wound, and a 0% chance of causing two. (i.e. never enough to put an uninjured power armoured HI down outright).
With the same conditions, the EXP weapon has a 43.2% chance of causing one wound, 28.8% of causing two and 6.4% of causing three. (The chances there are for exactly that many wounds, so the overall chance of wounding at all with the EXP weapon is 78.4%.)

Average wound counts are 0.5 for the AP weapon and 1.2 for the EXP weapon. Unless you need the points elsewhere, or really want to take the option with mines, I'd go EXP all the way - although more for its effectiveness against LI than against HI.

I say go with what looks cool lol. No math-hammer! lol

Nah, they're right on the EXP CC thing. I wasn't thinking that the nights were all 2 Wound models.

That's definitely the way to go there.

If only they let us have Monofilament weapons... that would be swell...

Well ya they are right but as soon as math starts getting floated around I starting thinking of GW stuff and how guys would use math to make unbeatable armies. Besides, if you don't know what you are going to play at a given time the EXP could just be overkill.

There is never such a thing as Overkill.

That's why I bring the Maghariba everywhere!

I'd take the EXP weapon. Not because of math or anything but because it friggin' EXPLODES.

Hindenburg wrote:I'd take the EXP weapon. Not because of math or anything but because it friggin' EXPLODES.

This.

CDK wrote:If you don't know what you are going to play at a given time the EXP could just be overkill.

I don't see that making it so that the Fiday actually has a good chance of killing a CC opponent is overkill (given that the Fiday is not a tough troop and quite likely to die if an opponent gets to attack back). It's a bit of a waste of their CC17 and MA Lvl 3 if you have to steer clear of targets you're unlikely/unable to kill.

Also, yes. Exploding close combat weapons.

Woow, so many good suggestions. Thank you all guys. I really see that you put some thoughts into this. I don't have much time at the moment because I'm studying for the exam (it's end of the term and professors have that nasty habit to give tests and grade them ) and it's particularly nasty exam called Basics of Systematic Biophysics. It just leaves me mentally exhausted. Anyway, enough of whining on my side. I'll edit this post later to include comments on your comments (that's a strange sentence ).

It's not overkill if your sole defence in combat is to kill the opposing model before it gets to strike back...

Plus, as has been pointed out, it goes BOOM! and is therefore clearly superior anyway.

IJW wrote:Plus, as has been pointed out, it goes BOOM! and is therefore clearly superior anyway.

this.

this is going in my signature