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In the C:SM, if you take Shrike and you choose to replace Combat Tactics with his Chapter Tactics of "Fleet" it says "all units in your army exchange... for Fleet USR". By "ALL" units does this mean "all" units or only units that a: have Combat Tactics first of all (obviously), and b: only units that can "Run", and thereby benefit from"Fleet", in the first place (somwhat less obviously)..?

I think both are true, but would love some one to explain how I'm wrong so I can have fleet bikers too!?!

All units with combat tactics loose it and gain fleet.

So yes you have fleet bikers...but Bikers cannot run...so it doesnt matter.

Shrike gives fleet to any unit/model that has combat tactics...So tac marines, assault marines, devastators, bikers (AFAIK), scouts, and termies all have fleet.

Lightcavalier wrote:All units with combat tactics loose it and gain fleet.

So yes you have fleet bikers...but Bikers cannot run...so it doesnt matter.

Unless you take Kor'sarro Khan on Moondrakken. he can Run.

I agree that units with Combat tactics gain fleet, even if they can't run. Generally, most marine armies I've seen that are built to use Shrike aren't built to use bikes, and vice versa, so I'm not sure how often that fleet will be wasted like that.

Lightcavalier wrote:All units with combat tactics loose it and gain fleet.

So yes you have fleet bikers...but Bikers cannot run...so it doesnt matter.

Hah! Yes, that's how I read it too... Sure you don't want to tell me the Chapter Tactics trumps that? C'mon, I'll be yer freind! No? Ah well, I tried! Was wanting to build mixed Shrike/Khan list... "all" units w/ Fleet sounded too cool for skool... and it was! Guess bike troops would clear out FA slots for more Jump Packs still, but can do that with cheaper Bike Cpt, or just pick Khans tactics and drop shrike... Although "Fleet" Termies sounds fun? If I still do it I'll just have to adjust my game plan a little is all! Thanks!

Shrike lists are often based around lots of 10 man Scout squads(with CCWs) and at least 1 big unit of assault terminators that all Infiltrate forwards for first turn assault funzies(Termies are joined by Shrike who gives them Infiltrate)

Then the list may have some Assault Marines too. With Fleet they actually become pretty nasty.

Happyjew wrote:

Lightcavalier wrote:All units with combat tactics loose it and gain fleet.

So yes you have fleet bikers...but Bikers cannot run...so it doesnt matter.

Unless you take Kor'sarro Khan on Moondrakken. he can Run.

Right, there is that, but just him not his squad...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:Shrike lists are often based around lots of 10 man Scout squads(with CCWs) and at least 1 big unit of assault terminators that all Infiltrate forwards for first turn assault funzies(Termies are joined by Shrike who gives them Infiltrate)

Then the list may have some Assault Marines too. With Fleet they actually become pretty nasty.

Have come to that opinion myself, just fleshing out some "test" list ideas... My Choppy Scouts can come out of hiding!!! Was thinking Shrike w/Assault squad and Assault Termies in 'Sader, but that is a great idea!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ricedaddy wrote:I agree that units with Combat tactics gain fleet, even if they can't run. Generally, most marine armies I've seen that are built to use Shrike aren't built to use bikes, and vice versa, so I'm not sure how often that fleet will be wasted like that.

I just have a 2 full squads of bikers and recently acquired a grip of Assault Marines and, reading the fluff on how well they work together, was inspired to try it? "Fleet" Bikes and Assault Squads just sounded appealing, but am certain since Fleet is a function of being able to run, bikes cant fleet, as we've discussed above? Might still try the 'combo' list, but... less bikes, more scouts, work in a Van or Sternguard maybe?

I wouldn't bother with the van or SG personally, unless you just want a pod full of SG with combi-meltas adding first-turn "drop and nuke two vehicles" to your alpha-strike.

"Shrike lists are often based around lots of 10 man Scout squads(with CCWs) and at least 1 big unit of assault terminators that all Infiltrate forwards for first turn assault funzies(Termies are joined by Shrike who gives them Infiltrate)"
I have played this army before for years and unfortunately it is almost impossible to get someone to give the terminators a first turn assault. Most of the time you are required to be more than 18 inches away...:(

That would be true, but it is very difficult for someone not to get a 1st turn charge. They can't have everything over 18" away from all of your units.

Grey Templar wrote:That would be true, but it is very difficult for someone not to get a 1st turn charge. They can't have everything over 18" away from all of your units.

If you're infiltrating you must be more than 18" away from all of their units. You cannot be closer.

Unfortunatley, i think what you were hoping for was fleeting dreads or something? Can't be done :(

rigeld2 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:That would be true, but it is very difficult for someone not to get a 1st turn charge. They can't have everything over 18" away from all of your units.

If you're infiltrating you must be more than 18" away from all of their units. You cannot be closer.

I should clarify this - unless you infiltrate out of LoS - then you only have to be more than 12" away.

Grey Templar wrote:That would be true, but it is very difficult for someone not to get a 1st turn charge. They can't have everything over 18" away from all of your units.

If you are infiltrating, and cannot do so out of LOS, then you must be >18" away from EVERY enemy unit, not just the one with LOS to you