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So correct me if I'm wrong...

If I throw a squad of 20 Warriors out, with an Overlord (Phylactery, Sempternal Weave, Resurrection Orb, Phase Shifter, Phaeron), Zahndrekh and Obyron, and Cryptek (Harbinger of Destruction, Gaze of Flame, Solar Pulse)....

I have a scoring unit with 30 wounds, reanimation protocol that works %50 of the time, Can move to any part of the board each turn (and fire as if it had not moved), Has defensive grenades, a small amount of being able to play the wound allocation game, the ability to gain one ability each turn (counterattack, furious charge, hit and run, night vision/acute senses, stealth or tank hunters) and can deny one unit the use of those abilities once each turn, can telaport even if locked in combat, can make the whole table nightfight rules for one turn, and lay down 20 rapidfire str4 ap5 gauss shots, two 12'' str5 ap3 assault 3 shots, and one 36'' str8 ap2 assault 1 shot. I think i covered every thing. and all this for 885 points...

Is this a solid place to start (or is this a fail unit) with an army, and if so, what other units (besides stalkers to help make all the shots twin linked) would work well with it?

I was thinking for 2k adding in 3 5 man squads of warriors in ghost arks to stage around the board to take objectives them selves, and to refill the dead to the ball that don't reanimate, and 3 stalkers with tl heavy gauss cannons to help mark stuff for TL shots...

Well, you've got another cryptek in the bank. If you're going to use it as a CC unit, maybe another Lord - regardless, another Royal Court member can be attached.

Randall Turner wrote:Well, you've got another cryptek in the bank. If you're going to use it as a CC unit, maybe another Lord - regardless, another Royal Court member can be attached.

the overlord takes up first spot, Zahndrekh and Obyron take up the second, and i can only attach one Cryptec to a squad any way

Kalzruk wrote:

Randall Turner wrote:Well, you've got another cryptek in the bank. If you're going to use it as a CC unit, maybe another Lord - regardless, another Royal Court member can be attached.

the overlord takes up first spot, Zahndrekh and Obyron take up the second, and i can only attach one Cryptec to a squad any way

You have two Overlords, you can have two Royal Courts. You can attach one member of each Royal Court to your unit. You may select a Lord instead of a Cryptek (not a HQ choice), but either way, again - you have one more Royal Court member you may attach to your unit.

Might do the Harbinger of Despair thing, dunno, your choice.

So lets say i throw in a Harbinger of Eternity, with the Cronometron, if i roll my scatter die and get an arrow, a 1 and a 6 for example, can i use that to re roll the 6?

Add Szeras and make those Warriors Toughness 5!

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Add Szeras and make those Warriors Toughness 5!

Can't remove any of my other HQs to make room for him

Kalzruk wrote:So lets say i throw in a Harbinger of Eternity, with the Cronometron, if i roll my scatter die and get an arrow, a 1 and a 6 for example, can i use that to re roll the 6?

Well, that's actually a point of contention, and if you feel like stirring things up you can wander over to YMDC and ask there - but generally I wouldn't count on it until/unless there's a FAQ clearing things up. Chronometron's still a very handy piece of gear, though. If you're serious about doing this I'd say play it a few times and see what you wish you had, not many of us have experience with this sort of mega unit - but I'd be inclined to another CC element, either a MSS capable vanilla Lord or maybe that lightning field thingie. Edit: wait I'm an idiot - take another Solar Pulse so's nobody can concentrate long-range fire on you. (And another lance, no such thing as too much firepower.)

I like where your going with this, add in a couple GA's for repairs and mobile cover and I think your on too something. I think the Necron Mechanics work quite well with Castling war of attrition type strategies.

I've done this with a squad of Immortals.

Imotekh, Obyron and Zahndrekh with a Gazetek and a Chronotek.

It can be extremely hard to shift.

Kalzruk wrote:So lets say i throw in a Harbinger of Eternity, with the Cronometron, if i roll my scatter die and get an arrow, a 1 and a 6 for example, can i use that to re roll the 6?

No. No you cannot. I really wish people would stop assuming they can.

Is it fearless? Because big squads of necrons are pretty much butter to a dual lash list.

I'd conga line lash you and leave all the HQ way in the back, then charge your crappy warriors with a couple demon princes and as many squads of 'zerkers and plague marines as I can squeeze in.

Then you are making a leadership test on some kind of negative number.

Honestly foot necrons are making dual lash a decent army again.

This is an odd unit, Kevlar. I don't think it's a CC unit, more of a pop-over-there-and-shoot unit that can CC "okay". You'd have to break down the battle you're proposing here 'cause I'm stoopit, but let's say you'd probably win it. (Not sure you want to pile in with strong monsters/IC's, the Necrons have odd hardware to handle those or turn any individually strong unit against its owners.) Point is he'd probably want to move away from this and shoot at you.

Edit: hmm, better than just "okay" at CC depending on the Royal Court loadout, it's really complicated 'cause of all the options.

Edit2: less stoopit now, hmm, yeah you can't keep him locked due to Obyron's ghostwalk mantle beaming him out of CC, but he'll either want to concentrate on the sorceror(s) initially or dodge LOS or he's going to be popping around the table like crazy. Not sure, either concentrate on defensive CC gear + MSS's or "first strike" warp-and-shoot firepower ala stormtek's voltaic staff.

a necron death star to me is 2 overlords with scythes and MSS with 5 lords apiece each lord with MSS and scythes and weaves, and maybe phase shifters feeling lucky, res orb on one or two with a few cypteks one with a chron, others with eldritch lances maybe, then you high jack a ghost ark from a warrior squad and drive 12 get out lance and assault. and everything dies.

Kevlar wrote:Honestly foot necrons are making dual lash a decent army again.

lol, sure is lucky NO ONE PLAYS FOOT 'CRONS, then, huh?

try that sh*t with a REAL 'Cron CC Deathstar and see what happens
(something tells me you're going to have problems passing 7 3D6 leadership tests)

But for reference, here's an example someone was kind enough to prepare earlier-
1500 Dual-Overlord Necrons vs Dual Lash Chaos Marines

Kevlar wrote:Honestly foot necrons are making dual lash a decent army again.

Possibly one of the more incorrect things that I've read this week.

Daemon Princes vehemently disagree with getting lit up by Twin-Linked Tesla Destructors, Gloom Prisms make the Lash fail ~ half the time, and those Obliterators are going to be rolling Night Fight against any Necron player worth his salt.

Monster Rain wrote:

Kevlar wrote:Honestly foot necrons are making dual lash a decent army again.

Possibly one of the more incorrect things that I've read this week.

Daemon Princes vehemently disagree with getting lit up by Twin-Linked Tesla Destructors, Gloom Prisms make the Lash fail ~ half the time, and those Obliterators are going to be rolling Night Fight against any Necron player worth his salt.

I haven't seen anything like that happen. Tesla destructors bounce off demon princes who don't even need cover from some silly ap4 gun.

Gloom prisms are nice, half the time, but slow so you have to keep not only your scarabs near them to make more, but also any unit you want to protect from lash. Not easy to do on a board with terrain.

Night fight? For one everything in a chaos list is moving forward. So out of the 4-6 rhinos, dreads, defilers, something is going to land a searchlight. I've yet to see night fight matter to CSM. This isn't guard where you want to sit back at max range, everything in the chaos codex is better than necrons at assault, so everything is moving forward.

Kevlar wrote:I haven't seen anything like that happen. Tesla destructors bounce off demon princes who don't even need cover from some silly ap4 gun.

A Prince will fail 1/3 of all of it's armor saves on average. Factor in the number of wounds a barge does in an average volley.

Kevlar wrote:Gloom prisms are nice, half the time, but slow so you have to keep not only your scarabs near them to make more, but also any unit you want to protect from lash. Not easy to do on a board with terrain.

If scarabs are outside of Gloom Prism range it's generally because they have already assaulted something, unless you're doing something extremely wrong.

Kevlar wrote:Night fight? For one everything in a chaos list is moving forward. So out of the 4-6 rhinos, dreads, defilers, something is going to land a searchlight. I've yet to see night fight matter to CSM. This isn't guard where you want to sit back at max range, everything in the chaos codex is better than necrons at assault, so everything is moving forward.

What point value are you playing at? I must also question your experience in this area when you make claims that everything in the Chaos Codex is better than Necrons in assault.

Monster Rain wrote:
A Prince will fail 1/3 of all of it's armor saves on average. Factor in the number of wounds a barge does in an average volley.

Yeah, that averages about 1 failed wound per turn, princes have 4 and are in assault by turn 2.

What point value are you playing at? I must also question your experience in this area when you make claims that everything in the Chaos Codex is better than Necrons in assault.

1500 to 2000. Other than a C'tan what do the necrons have that worries princes, berzerkers, plagues in assault? Not to mention terminators, dreads, defilers. Necrons seem strong against MSU razor spam or mech guard armies, but they seem pretty fragile when facing a close combat army, especially one that can put down a lot of lascannon and melta support fire. I would imagine BT lists and deathwing do pretty good too. Armies that are going to close fast and punch you in the snout.

Have you ever fought a full unit of Triarch Praetorians? Have fun with those 10 S5 AP2 shots and the S5 power weapons in close combat. If there's a Dlord with them, that's a T6 model with another S7 pw and a res orb. Have fun being stuck in close combat for three turns.

You'd kick my ass, Kevlar, but I'm optimized for a Coteaz razorback spam.

AB's are tricky to calculate hit odds, they'll average 1 hit per shot plus splash, so they'll do a little better. (They get +2 hits auto per giving them an even one per shot average.)

Most lists (see j2y's wraithwing, or Alex's Adepticon list, or one of the Scarab farm lists) have a lot more CC in them than mine, with almost all of them running a double CCB setup. You could tailor for more CC, but with GK as a likely opponent that's risky.

Its a gamble ive done this and had several success's. however smarter more experienced players will target that blob with everything and anything, if you dont get first turn

It can be very entertaining with most people fuming that you just glanced what ever you were shooting at to death or wiped a favored squad/ high value squad lol

lol anyone played apoc against 2 overlords each with 5 lords with semp weave, war scythe, mind shackle scarabs, phase shifter and over ords with res orbs to mae sure that they also get up on a 4+. have fun with your khorne termies, now lest say this is a really big apoc game and each lord has a res orb and i chuck each of them in with a unit of 10 scytheguard or sword and board.
hmm 120 s7, t5, 3+4+++ monstrous creatures (thanks to scythe) each delivering 2 hits plus the all 12 lords hits which is 6 for the overlords and 20 for the lords which equals: 266 s7 monstrous creature hits each turn. i can really see that getting ripped up by chaos space marines. Khorne Berzerkers... nek minnit. or for that extra survivability 120 sword and board with 4++ and s5 power weapons. either way you chaos space marines get what? 1 unsaved wound a turn in ten on ten combat which then has a 50 percent chance to do nothing at all. which is one sucessful wound in 20 on 10 with khorne zerkers goody. in ten turns you could kill a whole unit of lychguard!!! wow


Automatically Appended Next Post:
random thought. why don't monoliths have quantum shielding. XD that'd b awesome

Randall Turner wrote:You'd kick my ass, Kevlar, but I'm optimized for a Coteaz razorback spam.

AB's are tricky to calculate hit odds, they'll average 1 hit per shot plus splash, so they'll do a little better. (They get +2 hits auto per giving them an even one per shot average.)

Most lists (see j2y's wraithwing, or Alex's Adepticon list, or one of the Scarab farm lists) have a lot more CC in them than mine, with almost all of them running a double CCB setup. You could tailor for more CC, but with GK as a likely opponent that's risky.

I'm not saying CSM are a strong codex at the moment, what necrons are good against, MSU razor spam, CSM are pretty horrible against. But you do seem to get it that the average assault oriented lash list is going to pose some big problems to the average tournament necron list.

Its good to be able to feel like my army is slightly viable again. I haven't faced a horde of annihilation barges, but the ones I have seen have been pretty underwhelming. Shooting at a MC with 3+ save isn't their strong suit. Especially if you keep the prince at least 6" away from any friendly models. Then you aren't getting any arc. The barge just seems rather lackluster against most of my stuff. It can't really hurt a defiler, or the obliterators, and might drop a wound or two off one the princes but then its getting blown up.

And that's all fine. To be blunt, you're not the enemy anyway - GK is the devil! You're part of our whole axis of evi.. i mean, Xeno alliance against the squishy meat.. well, okay some of you are squishy too but not *as* squishy. Except for those green pus dudes, ick. But yeah.

In game terms I think Necrons move the meta away from some elements of long range shooty mech MSU lists towards those with CC and mobility. That helps CSM. And that's probably a good thing. If I wanted to play micro-armor I just would. But GK is all-around a more powerful codex. We work *well* against IG mech spam - but GK has all these little gotcha rules like fortitude (ignores glances) PotMS (fires moving flat-out == for CC hit) oddball psychic crap (too much to list) that they're honestly just a better codex, they will beat our list if they put one second of thought into it. Happily, they have to also beat each other.