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Hi guys,

I'm just getting back into 40k after a long while out and doing some growing up haha. FoW caught my eye and I have ordered the Achtung! box set which gives me the rules and 5 tanks I believe. Seems like a decent deal!

Anyway, I'm wondering what I should be looking to buy next? I've always been fascinated by World War 2 so I'm really excited about this. I'm not 100% sure which army I would like to build yet, does anyone have any recommendations for someone starting out? Ideally I would like to use some of the models that you get in the intro box set to keep cost down so that leaves me with the Yanks or Germans... but if not it doesn't matter. I'd like to build an army in mid-late war, with a view to building a D-Day type army in the future.

Lastly, which source book (are they called source books?!) should I buy first, I've seen lots of recommendations around the forums but it's all so confusing and there seems to be so many!

Thanks everyone,

Chris

Grey Wolf is pretty much all-encompasing for Late War Germans and it is Version 3 Rules compatible. German army is pretty mandatory, since most conflicts in fact involved them - they are for FoW like Space Marines (other soldiers of the fascist Imperium ) for 40K .
As for yankies - I stand to be corrected, but Blood, Guts and Glory could be the most up-to-date book. Since You have already ordered Achtung, I will not comment about that purchase, alas...

You can also get armylists to play with by registering at easyarmy.com - it is sort of online armybuilder for FoW. Older lists and lists from Version 3 Hardcover Bundle are for free, the rest are for a symbolic pay (Grey Wolf was 1,5 or 2 USD IIRC) and this site is approved by Battlefront.

Haha thanks for the reply! I think I'll pick up Grey Wolf then. Oh dear... what's wrong with Achtung?

Any other tips for someone starting out?

We have this comprehensive article here - sort of most things You need to know, but it appears that You have done part of Your homework already
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Starting_a_Flames_of_War_Force

Achtung is not very cost-effective. You get soft-cover rulebook, which they gave away for free when Version 3 was launched and which will start to fall apart quite soon (I've warned You so don't be surprised - better get some additional binding for it - also BF has been reported to give away free 12 USD blister if You send them receipt for binding their book). Apart of that You get a couple of dice (which as a 40K player You should be having in abundance),only two plastic StuGs and three Shermans which are a bit meh when compared to similar plastic kits made by the Plastic Soldier Company. StuGs are not German Late War mainstay vehicle - Panzer IV H are, so You will still need to buy them to start a decent army. Also two StuGs are not enough for a decent platoon (it is like that GW box with three? bolter Space Marines, which they used to sell, with no upgrades etc), so You will have to buy more - better if You already bought a PSC box with five of them... At the same time, when paying a bit more for hardcover bundle, You get a strong rule book, which will not fall apart and require further investments into binding, a Forces book with armylists and a Hobby book, which is kinda OK. If Achtung contained at least three vehicles for both sides, if would be a bit more cost-effective, but alas it does not.

Thanks for the link, I'll give that a good read!

Ah crap :( I guess I should've waited before buying it! What sort of period would I be looking at if I was to build around the StuGs and Shermans?

JaggyNI wrote:Thanks for the link, I'll give that a good read!

Ah crap :( I guess I should've waited before buying it! What sort of period would I be looking at if I was to build around the StuGs and Shermans?

It is not that bad - somebody here bought Open Fire starter set soon after Version 3 was launched. Another one almost did the same, but luckily, he posted on this forum first . Achtung is kinda ok, so don't worr, but Bundle set is better for a beginner.

Achtung set is primary for Late War lists, but You could use them for Midwar as well. It depends on how hardcore is Your gaming group, since pitting them against each other under Mid-war means using North Africa rules, and das Deutsche Afrika Korps had different model list and camo. If You play them against each other under different settings, this means Normandy and so on, and that's Late War already.

Thanks, this all a bit overwhelming! haha. I'm reading the thread you linked me to and like the look of the 82nd Airborne build which suggested getting this (http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=1585) which looks good.

What book would I need that contains the army lists etc. for that?

82nd Airborne is in Turning Tide - maybe a Yankee player could clarify if they are somewhere else as well.

I'll counter Cain's advice, actually.

So, to answer your questions. If you want to focus your companies/models around D-Day, I'd take a look at 'Turning Tide' and 'Earth & Steel' - these are D-Day (and a bit after) books for Americans, British, Canadians, and Germans. (Now, this is coming from me, but since I do most of my gaming from 'themes', you'll never see me intentionally play one book's list against another book's. I tend to stick within certain time frame and theaters). While they're 2nd Ed. books, you can pick up the lists from Easy Army for dirt cheap. Additionally, when Battlefront releases their update for their Late War books (which will include all the updated stats for Late War everything), Gregg will be adjusting Easy Army accordingly. Until then, it's not hard to figure out what should be what.

Now, starting out. Achtung isn't a bad buy. The rulebook will fall apart, but a quick stop at whatever Staples-equivalent you have in the UK should get in ring-binded for cheap, and it'll stay together for a good while longer. For the tanks, well, I bought the older Open Fire! boxset, and all the tanks went to good use. My friend took the 2 STuGs for his Fallschirmjagerkompanie, and the 3 Shermans went to me - 2 went into service with my Panzerkompanie, and the third was finally just painted up to act as a Observer Tank Team for my artillery. And again, this is all in the lists for Turning Tide and Earth & Steel.

As a new player, most people would say to start a Tank Company, since they're usually cheaper and don't have as many rules to use as infantry do. With StuGs and Shermans, you could use them for American/British Tank companies, and for the Germans, either a StuG Abteilung Assault Gun Company or use them as Divisional Support for later Infantry companies. That's one of the nice things about FoW - platoons will often cross over between army lists, so you'll get even more use out of them.

As Cain said, though - use the Plastic Soldier Company for your tanks (and even infantry). They're much cheaper than Battlefront. I'll be using them extensively for my German Infantry companies this summer.

Thanks, you've been a great help

I would also challenge the claim that StuGs aren't a mainstay vehicle for Germans in the late war period - they most definitely are! What makes StuGs even better is that not only are they useful in Late War, they are even better in Mid-War (and Panzer IV Hs are basically late war only, or very late Mid-War, and very expensive in Mid-War in terms of points because of that).

If it interests you, you can use Shermans not only for Americans, but also British and Russian armies.

A lot of people suggest starting with tank companies, but to be honest, I feel like this has started to go a bit overboard. I think starting with a tank company isn't a bad idea for someone who has never played a miniatures game before, but if you're a reasonably experienced gamer and have played either 40k or other historical games, you should just start with what you want. Of course, if you love tanks, then start with tanks. I just mean if infantry is really more your thing, then don't be dissuaded from starting with an infantry army. While there are a few more rules for infantry, they are pretty straightforward and you shouldn't have any problem with them if you've played other games.

But unlike 40k, FoW is more oriented towards combined arms approach, so instead of simply spamming troops choices as in 40K You should think in terms of support, so even if You decide to go with tank army, You still will need some infantry to hold the objectives You've taken with tanks, recon to deal with ambushes (with tank company You are likely to get ambushed by infantry/mechanised infantry armies) and air/anti-air. With careful planning You can even do several armies at once, for example, tank company with mechanised infantry/pioneer support or mechanised infantry with tank/assault gun (StuGs) support.

CainTheHunter wrote:But unlike 40k, FoW is more oriented towards combined arms approach, so instead of simply spamming troops choices as in 40K You should think in terms of support, so even if You decide to go with tank army, You still will need some infantry to hold the objectives You've taken with tanks, recon to deal with ambushes (with tank company You are likely to get ambushed by infantry/mechanised infantry armies) and air/anti-air. With careful planning You can even do several armies at once, for example, tank company with mechanised infantry/pioneer support or mechanised infantry with tank/assault gun (StuGs) support.

Yes, this is quite true. In the long run, you will most likely be playing with a variety of units, but what kind of list you decide to start with (tanks, infantry, mechanized/motorized infantry, recon, etc.) can help determine your focus. The points level you play at will also have a strong effect on how you deal with various challenges and can force you to make some hard choices. Particularly if you are playing Germans at 1500 points, it is unlikely that you'll be able to fit in everything you want, so you will learn to deal with problems differently and some units will have to pull double duty, or you simply go without. This challenge can be even more pronounced in Mid-War, but I think it's one of the things that makes that era so appealing, and also why 1500 points was the standard in Flames of War for several years. If you're playing 1750 in Late War, it won't be as big of an issue, but it adds up fast if you start trying to include a bunch of rare late war tech like Königstigers and Jagdpanthers and stuff like that.

The truth of the matter is the Achtung set is pretty crap. You need at least another STug to form a Platoon, though you could make a Platoon of crap SHermans.

The STuG's aren't available to all lists, and when you are faced with lists that can take them as a support platoon over other assault guns (Other things like Marders, Hetzers, Jagdpanzer etc might be better for the points depending on options). Otherwise it's an entire Assault Gun Army, e.g HQ STuG's and 2-3 Platoons of them..... They are good vehicles. But it forces people into the mindset of using them in their force, even if it doesn't fit or is not what they want. A pair of Panzer IV's would have been better or more adaptable. Better yet, none, make it cheaper, include a generic token set an Artillery Template and mini copy of the forces book.

I hate freebie tanks, you never bloody use them, or you get a mate with the same and swap them. You just end up with aload of stuff to explain the rules, at least in 40k I got a Tactical squad, some termies and a Dreadnought all these were complete viable units. Two STuG's is basically a HQ choice, great.......Versus a small Combat Platoon of 3 (Shermans should always be in Platoons of 4 or more).

In Mid War you can definitely take a platoon of only two StuGs.

Can you not do that in Late War?

StuGs are often a better, more historical choice for infantry armies, and there aren't very many lists that allow Panzer IVs but don't allow StuGs, especially when you take both Mid War and Late War into account.

Hordini wrote:In Mid War you can definitely take a platoon of only two StuGs.

Can you not do that in Late War?

As I said in my post, they fit right into my friend's Fallschirmjagerkompanie. They make for some interesting times, since their guns are pretty deadly against the Cromwells I usually take in support.

You can see them (and those 3 Shermans I mentioned earlier!) in my collection over at my blog.

You should never take a platoon of 2 Vehicles, it is unbelievably vulnerable. One lucky shot, One Destroyed, and suddenly the other one fails it's motivation test and off it goes. You lose a whole platoon to a single lucky shot.

I'm really against the freebie tanks, it would be better for achtung to be an ancillary pack (tokens, dice, templates and the Rule book and mini-forces book).

Motivation test are taken when you lose more than 50% so you don't test in a two model platoon when you lose a single team.

mwnciboo wrote:You should never take a platoon of 2 Vehicles, it is unbelievably vulnerable. One lucky shot, One Destroyed, and suddenly the other one fails it's motivation test and off it goes. You lose a whole platoon to a single lucky shot.

I'm really against the freebie tanks, it would be better for achtung to be an ancillary pack (tokens, dice, templates and the Rule book and mini-forces book).

I think that they should either do as you suggested or expand the pack to include an infantry platoon for each force and expand on the tanks already included (3 StuG, 4 Shermans). That way it would either work well as a handy game pack or as a better introduction to the game in the same manner as Black reach etc. As it is the models are fairly useless.

George Spiggott wrote:Motivation test are taken when you lose more than 50% so you don't test in a two model platoon when you lose a single team.

On page 172 it is pretty clear about destroyed vehicles. and yeah your right........Hmmmm methink's my pair of Tigers should not have had a Motivation check a few weeks back (the other failed and ran).........Opps, completely wrong there apologies George. This does mean 2 Tank Platoons won't break, ever. You have to destroy them. This is bloody odd when you think about it

mwnciboo wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:Motivation test are taken when you lose more than 50% so you don't test in a two model platoon when you lose a single team.

On page 172 it is pretty clear about destroyed vehicles. and yeah your right........Hmmmm methink's my pair of Tigers should not have had a Motivation check a few weeks back (the other failed and ran).........Opps, completely wrong there apologies George. This does mean 2 Tank Platoons won't break, ever. You have to destroy them. This is bloody odd when you think about it

I'm pretty sure two vehicle platoons can break if you destroy one and the second one gets bailed. In that case there would be one vehicle destroyed, and zero active (since a bailed vehicle doesn't count for motivation tests), so in that case you'd take a morale test as the destroyed vehicles outnumber the active ones. But in any case, as has already been said, just destroying one of the vehicles won't force a motivation check.

You have to be careful with a two vehicle platoons, but they can be viable if you have a few points left over and want some extra firepower. You probably wouldn't want to be assaulting with them, but sometimes two StuGs can be just the thing to support an infantry company, and it's not that uncommon to see a two vehicle platoon in Mid-War lists (and StuGs hit hard in Mid-War).

It seems I've created quite a debate on here! Haha.

Well I've ordered Achtung! anyway so not a lot I can do about it... just enjoy modelling the tanks and play a few games with them to get me used to the rules.

I have decided to follow the suggestion in the 'Starting a Flames of War Force' thread for building an American 82nd Airborne army. I went ahead and ordered the US Parachute Rifle Company boxed set like that thread suggested only to be emailed by the guys at Battlefront to tell me it's on backorder :( (got a couple of weeks of waiting for it now!).

So thanks for the help guys, next on the purchase list is going to be Turning Tide!

JaggyNI wrote:It seems I've created quite a debate on here! Haha.

Well I've ordered Achtung! anyway so not a lot I can do about it... just enjoy modelling the tanks and play a few games with them to get me used to the rules.

I have decided to follow the suggestion in the 'Starting a Flames of War Force' thread for building an American 82nd Airborne army. I went ahead and ordered the US Parachute Rifle Company boxed set like that thread suggested only to be emailed by the guys at Battlefront to tell me it's on backorder :( (got a couple of weeks of waiting for it now!).

So thanks for the help guys, next on the purchase list is going to be Turning Tide!

As i am a active PAra YAnkee player!!!At least i am staying true to my family Heritage,YEs i have a few US Airborne vets in my family.
Their is a PAra list in North Aferica Campaign book book.Page 252
If you are playing American PAras here are a few recommendations
75mm Howitzers,you can never have enough of theese.
50. Cal. AA platoons ,really good at dealing with a little bit of everything.My experience great for protecting your Howitzers.
Sniper teams,you may purchase theese from Battlefronts Bits service.Never have enough pinning weapons.
Mortar platoons for smoke and barrages.
And last one of my favs, Glider recon willys jeeps,you get three infantry stands and a Sarge plus the jeeps get 50. cals!!Great for Flanking moves.
Divisional support can be one of opinion me personally i am a fan of Artilery.

mwnciboo wrote:On page 172 it is pretty clear about destroyed vehicles. and yeah your right........Hmmmm methink's my pair of Tigers should not have had a Motivation check a few weeks back (the other failed and ran).........Opps, completely wrong there apologies George. This does mean 2 Tank Platoons won't break, ever. You have to destroy them. This is bloody odd when you think about it

It took me a while to get used to this too. Only being able to measure at any time took me longer to grasp. That still breaks my GW/Warmachine brain.

Hordini wrote:I'm pretty sure two vehicle platoons can break if you destroy one and the second one gets bailed. In that case there would be one vehicle destroyed, and zero active (since a bailed vehicle doesn't count for motivation tests), so in that case you'd take a morale test as the destroyed vehicles outnumber the active ones. But in any case, as has already been said, just destroying one of the vehicles won't force a motivation check.

I've lost my fair share of tanks from platoons that never even lost a vehicle. Double bails can take a whole platoon with enough luck.

mwnciboo wrote:You should never take a platoon of 2 Vehicles, it is unbelievably vulnerable. One lucky shot, One Destroyed, and suddenly the other one fails it's motivation test and off it goes. You lose a whole platoon to a single lucky shot.

Check this rule. I one is dead and 1 is alive, there is no roll. (Edit: oops! didnt see above... so... um... yeah. early in the morning here.)

Exactly right for tanks and mobile AT assets.

2 Pumas or 8-rads are pretty cool to take. Get the Recce benefits without the added cost of a 3rd team. Just my opinion.