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All right, I've got a question for you guys. I've decided to start an Astral Claws army. However, I intend to use blood angels rules for it. Now, I know this is all fine, but I want to use Lugft Huron in the army. I know this breaks his rules a bit since it says he's supposed to be used in a normal space marine army, but I don't think it matters that much. I would really appreciate some feedback on this, and especially if you'd say whether you'd play me or not. For those of you wondering, his rules basically just make everyone Ld 10, his orbital bombardment is ordanence 2, and he's hard to kill (he kind of has I'll be back). so yeah. some help please?

In a friendly game there is no problem, just ask your opponent and if he says yes you're fine.

In a tournament you'll be out on your ass with that kind of list. Any TO worth listening to wil say you can't pick and choose out of different codices to make an army list.

There are plenty of special characters for blood angels, and they are sometimes viewed as a bit of a cheesy army (IMO! - not trying to start a flame war with all you BA players ) with that in mind I think TBH I think it depends a bit on why you are using blood angels/ what sort of list you are building with them.

If you are building a very powerful lists with units that work well with Huron's extra abilities, it might be a bit overpowered and might make me feel a bit annoyed if you kept using that kind of list. However If you had painted your Lugft Huron in blood angels scheme/ or painted your blood angles marines as astral claws I would be cool with it- especially if you added some explanation like this is the Tyrant's assault company/ suicide company/ deep striking land raider company etc.

Basically I think as long as you don't take the and exploit it: people will be ok with it.

liturgies of blood wrote:
In a tournament you'll be out on your ass with that kind of list. Any TO worth listening to wil say you can't pick and choose out of different codices to make an army list.

I would think in a lot of tournaments the whole 'No forgeworld' thing would be tree main problem.

My only problem is that he, unlike the rest of your army, would not suffer from the red thirst.


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And im generally against cherrypicking from codexes. FW puts prints stuff for specific armies for a reason.

insaniak wrote:

liturgies of blood wrote:
In a tournament you'll be out on your ass with that kind of list. Any TO worth listening to wil say you can't pick and choose out of different codices to make an army list.

I would think in a lot of tournaments the whole 'No forgeworld' thing would be tree main problem.

Sorry I was thinking of Huron Blackheart... I still stand by what I said, you don't get to max out blood angels and then stick in any old special character to give yourself a broken army unless it is in the blood angel codex.
ASFAIK your BA captain doesn't suffer from the red thirst rolls at the start of the game, none of the HQ selections do.

Sorry, IA9 says Codex or Tyrant's Legion, no Blood Angels. They have their own Special Character from IA9: Malakim Phoros.

Homer

Cherry picking options from different codicies just sticks in my craw for some reason. If you're going to use Blood Angels for your army ruleset, then use the rules for one of the BA special characters for Huron.

I wouldn't allow it even in friendly games. The point of the game is to choose your army from one specific Codex, not pick your faves from a variety. An alternative possibility is if you paint him up as BA, but then you can either play him as a BA Termie Captain, or play the BA Marines as an Astral Claws army from IA:10 but with a different paint-scheme.

As long as we were both on the same page (Being able to pick from different codexes) then I would play a game against you.

For tournaments, it would of course be up to the tournament rules. Which most do not allow it.

I would simply suggest you use the Huron model 'counts as' one of the BA characters you think best represents him specs wise. Or even just use his model for a generic hq.

For A FRIENDLY GAME JUST FINE. I have a SOul Drinkers Army, and I never play with any Tourny player even in firendly games cuz its not "fun for them" I use a base blood angels army, with additions of a few units example if i use my Tellos, I can have one squad of Possessed or Berserkers. However my heavy options and vehicles are very limited as well as vehicle choices, with the execption of a game where My Lygris "master of the Forge" could bring in "ANY" single xenos craft and pilot himself, IF YOU THINKTHATS NUTS THEN READ THE BOOKS< PERFECT FLUFF! Its Just for FUN. I'd love to play fluff games where my opponent has a back story to his army. The players who just can't stand "cherrypicking" fine you don't have to play against me, my feelings aren't hurt, I Don't play Tournaments. Have rules that are close to one codex but have your alternate rules written out so when you find an opponent who is cool with them, you can rock out your fluff army.

Why not use Codex: Chaos Space Marines, where he already exists as a playable HQ unit?

I take it the Astral Claws are Loyalist Marines, so using the Chaos codex doesn't work in that respect, Similar to why I don't use them strictly for Soul Drinkers, a loyalist chapter tainted by chaos, make sense only to include a fluff specific unit then cram your whole army into the codex. My Brother has been playing for decades, he said there was in the past rules for taking units from other armies, legit cherry picking!

This one is easy:

If I cannot use a Tau Manta in my Necron army, then you cannot use a non-BA unit in your BA army.

I tend to draw the line at Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine. with emphisis on any special characters must have a fluff reason behind the selection. That way we can play the Relictors , ,and the Soul Drinkers GW tells us how to be so creative with our space marine chapters then only limits us to ones "sanctioned".
"Invent your own Chapter" ..... as long as its one we are selling. Yeah for Tournament play everyone must stick to the rules, but for friendly games. if you agree it'll work. so If you paint your Manta to match your Necron Dynasty and have some cool green crystals stiking out with some awesome kit-bashed details yeah, you can't field one brimming with actual Tau models, once the "AS IS" Rule was almost king, now too many rule nazis are demanding tourny level rules for all every day play. And Thats Just Fine, just keep it to your own circles of play, For the Rest of us that want to have FUN, sweet, I'll Load up on Heavies, You take a butt load of Fast and we'll duke it out "Just to See What Happens" There ain't nutin wrong with that either. Just make sure sure your Opponent agrees first, If not Find someone more your style to play with.

Lightcavalier wrote:My only problem is that he, unlike the rest of your army, would not suffer from the red thirst.

The Blood Angels ICs don't suffer it either so no difference there - they're the best of their breed, individuals with the iron will needed to stay cool when leading a force of potential berserkers.

I'd happily see a force like this, if it's well painted and with a good story behind it. Ofc I'd expect some leniency on my own force choices too...

All right thank all you guys so much for the replies, what I'm looking at it a list with 30 assault marines, 2 furioso dreadswith drop pods, a termie squad with lightning claws, a 10 man tac squad, and thats it. Dont worry about tourneys, I know i can't use it there, I wasn't planning too. I already have an alternater list for that. I was just wondering for friendly games. The rules at my current club say no cherrypicking, but I'm relocating soon so I wanted to check how most people felt. I think I'll do it, and if someone disagrees with it then I'll just use a vanilla marine codex for the game. I'll upload some pics soon.

(funny story... I'm asking because I already ordered Huron and he's here... )


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Also on another note... I'm picking BA riles because if you read the Astral Claws fluff (they are traitors landcruiserlarry) it says that they prefer high speed tactics, and use lots of bikes and jump packs. Also, they enhanced their chapter size to that almost of a legion using any gene seed that they could find (death company hint hint) ... plus I already have salamanders so I dont really want to do more vanilla marine stufff..... thanks again though

Just a thought....try the Tyrants Legion list....its a great deal of fun....and very Astral Claws

All things considered, the way they described most of the chapters in the Badab War set seems to lead people to want to use the Blood Angels book to represent them...its not just Astral Claws.

I don't know, I'm usually pretty easy-going with house rules and whatnot, but if you're using the Blood Angel list rather than the Space Marine list then it simply feels like you're trying to use better rules. If I can see a good, thematic reason why you'd need to use C:BA rather than C:SM, then I'd be all for it; otherwise, I'd rather you use C:SM or the Tyrant's Legion list.

Alternatively, you could just use the Lugft Huron model to represent a BA character (special or otherwise) instead. I'd be fine with that.

Combining codex is kind of pushing what I'm normally ok with. I'd be fine if you had a BA captain or other character and called him Huron. You could make a BA captain with terminator armor, a lightning claw, and a combi-flamer is the closest your going to get build wise to Huron. Captain Tycho is also pretty close to Huron.

I'd say either play the Tyrant's list, or use the model with the rules for a BA codex HQ.

landcruiserlarry wrote:I tend to draw the line at Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine. with emphisis on any special characters must have a fluff reason behind the selection. That way we can play the Relictors , ,and the Soul Drinkers GW tells us how to be so creative with our space marine chapters then only limits us to ones "sanctioned".
"Invent your own Chapter" ..... as long as its one we are selling. Yeah for Tournament play everyone must stick to the rules, but for friendly games. if you agree it'll work. so If you paint your Manta to match your Necron Dynasty and have some cool green crystals stiking out with some awesome kit-bashed details yeah, you can't field one brimming with actual Tau models, once the "AS IS" Rule was almost king, now too many rule nazis are demanding tourny level rules for all every day play. And Thats Just Fine, just keep it to your own circles of play, For the Rest of us that want to have FUN, sweet, I'll Load up on Heavies, You take a butt load of Fast and we'll duke it out "Just to See What Happens" There ain't nutin wrong with that either. Just make sure sure your Opponent agrees first, If not Find someone more your style to play with.

I guess my problem with mixing & matching codices is that abuse of the rules then becomes subjective. Otherwise, why not just go balls to the wall and bring an army list like this:

Grey Hunters in BA Razorbacks
Psyrifleman Dreads
Eldrad
Manticores

I'm sure you could find some unsuspecting person to play your army. But if you're going to start tinkering with the rules, even a little, then you may as well just play a different game entirely.

Thanks again everyone

@Cheexsta my reason is I figured that boarding assaults would be conducted by assault marines, and I really loved the idea of an army where almost everything deep strikes....

@azazel the cat I think saying that you should be able to take a manta is a bit extreme? not trying to start a flame war but dude... thats a HUGE difference... if your taking a manta in your necrons its cool because you'd have to play apocalypse for that, where mixing armies is legal


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Thanks again everyone

@Cheexsta my reason is I figured that boarding assaults would be conducted by assault marines, and I really loved the idea of an army where almost everything deep strikes....

@azazel the cat I think saying that you should be able to take a manta is a bit extreme? not trying to start a flame war but dude... thats a HUGE difference... if your taking a manta in your necrons its cool because you'd have to play apocalypse for that, where mixing armies is legal

I think azazel was using his example to highlight the way things can go terribly wrong when you start mixing and matching armies. He wasn't actually intending to buy a manta and use it as a necron thing.

A less silly one; Some purifiers in a guard army. It would provide a close combat threat that guard armies lack by and large, filling a large hole and making it so easy for guard to patch one of the few holes in their army.

Farsight's Lieutenant wrote:The rules at my current club say no cherrypicking, but I'm relocating soon so I wanted to check how most people felt. I think I'll do it, and if someone disagrees with it then I'll just use a vanilla marine codex for the game.

I would strongly recommend playing a few games at your new club/store/whatever before pulling this list out. It will go over much better if once you know some of the guys you are playing against. A newcomer walking in and immediately asking to use a combined list isn't going to get as warm a reception.

insaniak wrote:

Farsight's Lieutenant wrote:The rules at my current club say no cherrypicking, but I'm relocating soon so I wanted to check how most people felt. I think I'll do it, and if someone disagrees with it then I'll just use a vanilla marine codex for the game.

I would strongly recommend playing a few games at your new club/store/whatever before pulling this list out. It will go over much better if once you know some of the guys you are playing against. A newcomer walking in and immediately asking to use a combined list isn't going to get as warm a reception.

probably a good idea and I know he wasn't serious, just wanted to make sure people know that it's not like I'm trying to troll people in to playing a list they'll never win against... I hate players like that

Just to say it again, if you simply used his model to represent a BA character, I think that eliminates any problem you're having.

no you cant use him in a blood angels army because he is a unique character but in my blood angels army i have a master of the forge because he is a) better than a techmarine b) he is not an unique character

liturgies of blood wrote:
In a tournament you'll be out on your ass with that kind of list. Any TO worth listening to wil say you can't pick and choose out of different codices to make an army list.

In our group as well. Huron was designed for Codex Space Marines and the Tyrant's Legion Army List, not Black Templars or Blood Angels or Grey Knights (Oh, the irony of that!). However, our group is pro-Imperial Armour, so at least you'll get to use his IA:9 rules and such with us.

morgendonner wrote:Just to say it again, if you simply used his model to represent a BA character, I think that eliminates any problem you're having.

This would be the only way my group would let you use the model outside of a Tyrant's Legion List or a Codex: Space Marines list, I'm afraid.

Mixing and matching codecies can lead to a lot of issues, Farsight's Lt. Mixing my Black Templar Assault Terminators with Furious Charge and a Grey Knight's Storm Raven would make me so...happy!