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So, my main play group is heavily marines. I personally play Space Wolves, and I've worked out my tactics against most other army's, but GK's are still beating me senseless. For the sake of argument here is a typical ~1850 list of mine:

HQ
Rune Priest- LL, Jaws, wolf tail
Rune Priest- LL, murderous hurricane, wolf tail

TROOPS
2x Grey Hunters- 5 man melta and banner w/ Lazback
1x Grey Hunters- 7 man melta and banner w/ Rhino
2x Grey Hunters- 6 man melta and banner w/ DP

HEAVY SUPPORT
3x Long Fangs- 5 ML and a Sarge

ELITE
1x Wolf Guard- 4 CM+PF, 1 term w/ CML+PF
1x Dreadnought- Autocannon + Plasma Cannon w/ DP


So you can probably tell I run a bit more of a gun line list. I'd like to go down to one or maybe no Pods (though they have definitely come in handy for late game objective grabbing before) but I don't have any more rhinos/razorbacks

I'm a bit more sketchy on my friends lists, but the standard looks something like this:

HQ
Grandmaster w/ lots of grenades

TROOPS
3 x Strike Squad- 10 man 2 psicannons, psybolt ammo and a hammer on the Justicar w/ Lazback

HEAVY SUPPORT
2x Psyflemen-psybolt ammo
1x Purgation Squad-7 man 4 psicannons psibolt ammo hammer on the Justicar

ELITE
Purifier Squad- 10 man, lots of different power weapons

I may be forgetting something in this list, but basically what is happening is that the GK player warp quakes with the Strike Squads, making effective deep striking nearly impossible, and hides the Purgation squad behind a big piece of terrain as close to mid field as possible and blows anything in 24" away with 16 S8 rending shots (through terrain!!). His Dreads Line up back field and fire away for 8 TL 48" S8 shots.

As I see it, I have the advantage close in, as I have more disposable bodies and more attacks per model. I also have the advantage at +24" as I'm out of psicannon range, and as good as those dreads are, they're easy pickings for 15 MLs. Getting in close seems to be a lost cause, as his back field (and midfield for that matter) is saturated with at least 24 S8 shots. Alternatively, I've been trying to dominate one flank, to take as much advantage of my 48" dominance as possible. This second tactic seems more effective, but I'm still loosing 4 out of 5 games since he can deep strike around my range advantage and contest in capture and control, plus turtling makes it pretty hard to win seize ground.

SO, any one have any bright ideas? I'd feel great if we could get this back to a 1 out of 3 win scenario

Special bonus for ideas on how to deal with that Purgation Squad!!

His shots should only be strength 7. Psybolt ammo does not work with psycannons. Where does he put his Grandmaster? What is he deep striking?!? Only thing in that list that can deep strike is the Grandmaster. Instead of Purifiers do you mean Paladins?

Drop murderous hurricane and pick up Tempest's Wrath. Causes all jetbikes, skimmers, jump infantry and deep strikers within 24” treat all terrain as difficult and dangerous. May cause some wounds, and also prevent the unit from getting onto the objectives if its scattered. Also helps in that you can back units away to keep firing into them and they have to roll exceptionally to get in range.

Whatever cover the purgation squad is hiding behind simply use it to bumrush them while giving yourself cover from his dreads. The lazback grey hunter squads charging and activating banner should kill the purgation squad. Have the drop pod grey hunter squads drop on his objective (using cover as much as possible to keep from getting raped by the dreads, and far enough away from the strike squads). Longfang the hell out of his dreads. Dont use the dread and pick up a wolf scout squad with melta bombs, meltagun, (powerfist optional) and have them Behind Enemy Lines into the psyfle dreads.

If he is using Paladins you are going to be in a tough spot. Put your longfangs and rhino GH squad on your objective or nearby. Give the pack leaders plasma guns to blast the paladins when they deep strike.

FTHDace wrote:His shots should only be strength 7. Psybolt ammo does not work with psycannons. Where does he put his Grandmaster? What is he deep striking?!? Only thing in that list that can deep strike is the Grandmaster. Instead of Purifiers do you mean Paladins?

Actually, Strike Squads can DS.
And he can't mean paladins, 10 man paladin unit with wound allocation is ~700 points.

Anyway, to the main points as FTHDace said: Psycannons don't benefit from psybolt ammo. And this is knowledge any GK player who has read his codex knows.
And you get 4+ cover save against those S7 shots from Purgation squad when they're using Astral aim, so it's not that bad. Rending hit only reduces your save from 3+ to 4+.
Note that if he hasn't told you about the cover save against shooting via Astral Aim, it's pretty obvious he is cheating.

Nullifying his Psychic powers should be large priority for you. Almost all GK special abilities are Psychic Powers, so with Runepriest within 24" you can nullify them 50% of time. Technically, you cou

Are your lists 1850 or 1950 points? I don't see how he could field that army with only 1850. It's barely doable with 1950 (and even then, it's missing some upgrades).
For reference 10 man Strike squad with 2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo and Hammer with Las-plas Razorback should be 330 points.

Luide wrote:
Actually, Strike Squads can DS.
And he can't mean paladins, 10 man paladin unit with wound allocation is ~700 points.

Sorry wasnt even thinking about DSing Strike Squads. I'm not seeing how youre having problems killing deep striking strike squads. They deep strike in, shoot you up. Youre in cover so each one is putting out (5 man combat squad, 1 psycannon) 8 shots wounding on 4s, 2 shots wounding on 2s with 6s rending. Rending isnt that big of a deal if youre in cover. You then return fire next turn with plasma or even str 8 ap3 from your LFs which means no armor in both cases.

Sorry for the late reply, Its finals week and I've got a thesis to write.


@ Luide-- Honestly you're probably right about over estimating the list. It just looked like the right amount of models to me, but I'm used to SW prices. The cover from astral sight is known, but I guess psybolt ammo not working with psycannons was missed (thats going to go a long way with saving my rhinos).

Even with a cover save though, thats 24 shots *4/6 *5/6*2/6=~4.5 kills (I'm thinking chance to pass BS then wound then armor save). Granted, he has to pop my rhino first, but thats not hard to do with the volume of fire he has, especially considering that in all probability, I'm going to have to move the rhino into LoS of his dreads to get in assault range. Then there probably will be at least 1 turn of my guys on foot before assault. Runic staff to null psychic tests could obviously be clutch, but then that RP has a good chance of getting toasted.

I guess then that puts me in the position of just throwing bodies at them till some get through. Of course thats why GH's are 15 pts each, but thats still going to be a hefty price tag. I guess the consensus is there is no way around it if I need that unit gone? Purgation squads are definitely the biggest pain in the ass I've seen so far.

@ FTHDace-- I've heard this argument for Tempest Wrath before. It just doesn't seem worth it to get a 1/6 chance of a wound per model. Thats about 1 wound per DS unit, IF they come in close to my RP with it and then he doesn't get his MH shots (~10.5*5/6*2/6*1/3=~1 wound and difficult and dangerous next turn) . Plus MH can be used tactically to keep distance if desired.

I think you could be right on switching the Dread for 2 units of Scouts w/ melta and maybe mbombs. Its great disruption for inexperienced players, and with BEL they could get a shot on those dreads, then soak up a turn of his fire, then get another shot then assault with those bombs (or else atleast get that one shot and keeps a ton of shots off everyone else). The fist comes out to be 43 pts (needs to be a WG and I'd put a CM on it), a little much for a Kamakazi unit coming in at 85 pts I think.

I wish he would use Paladins. Even if they take 2 units of GH down, I can just puts dome plasma or melta into them and win out points wise. I think those things are over priced death stars.

I would run some Wolf Scouts in the back door and mess up his Dreads with Meltaguns/Powerfists.

You need to our range his purgation squad, avoid the 24" bubble and ignore them.

Smack the Psyflemen with all ur shooting especially longfangs.

Keep your marines together, and charge into his squad with 2-3 of your squads after firing assault weapons. GK's really arnt "that" good in close combat as they get really reduced attacks when not on the charge.