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Q: Do non-ordnance Blast weapons ignore cover saves if they need to fire threw a window/Small opening
to hit there target, as long as the blast lands within the "Building"?

Ex: Eldy war walker fires Missile launcher at my Heavy Weapons squad which happens to be in a "Tower/Bunker" and the walker only has LOS threw a small opening in the window (which he would need to fire threw).
Eldy gets direct hit on scatter die and Center of blast marker lands within this tower/bunker, Does my HWS get a save? or just the fact he rolled a direct hit auto means he shot it threw that small opening?

*The Tower/bunker is closed topped and counts as fortified ( able to place models inside still)

Because in the book it says to count cover as if the hit came from the center of the blast marker, which i could understand Ord would be a no brainer since it comes straight down
but unsure of missile launchers...

Diezel wrote:Because in the book it says to count cover as if the hit came from the center of the blast marker, ....

That's for Ordnance Barrage, not for any other Blast weapon.

Blasts follw the normal cover save rules.

Barrage weapons determine cover from the center of the blast. Normal blast weapons, still use LoS from the firing model(s). In this situation, the guys in the bunker would get a cover save.

Added to which, bunkers are buildings. You can't shoot through the windows with anything except Template weapons. It's essentially an immobile transport vehicle.

Thats what i thought! awsome now im Going to have to re-read that BrB tonight lol

Page 77-79 (I think) for buildings.
Page 30 for blast weapons, page 32 for barrage weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Insaniak, it is all barrage weapons, not just Ordnance Barrage that cover is determined from the center of the blast.

insaniak wrote:Added to which, bunkers are buildings. You can't shoot through the windows with anything except Template weapons. It's essentially an immobile transport vehicle.

So if i see a squad in a building through a window i cant shoot him with my lasguns etc ( non template)? that seems kinda rediculous...

Diezel wrote:

insaniak wrote:Added to which, bunkers are buildings. You can't shoot through the windows with anything except Template weapons. It's essentially an immobile transport vehicle.

So if i see a squad in a building through a window i cant shoot him with my lasguns etc ( non template)? that seems kinda rediculous...

The rules were not written to be "Real World" logical.

The rules are an abstract system used to simulate a battle.

What would happen in the real world has nothing to do with the RAW.

Remember, buildings and ruins are different.

True...ive been playin if you can see a body part you can shoot that unit and if it happens to be a window then he just gets a cover save..... so your saying i have to "legit" name all fire ports of a house at which guys can shoot out but no one can shoot in? in which case the attacker would have to destroy the building?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i also dont make solid buildings i design my terrain so models can always be placed inside maybe i should label it Fortified Ruin? lol

Diezel wrote:So if i see a squad in a building through a window i cant shoot him with my lasguns etc ( non template)? that seems kinda rediculous...

It's actually a handy way of dealing with the fact that a lot of building terrain pieces aren't constructed in a way that makes it easy or convenient to actually put models inside. Ruins aren't a problem... what you see is what you get. For intact buildings, you just embark as if it was a vehicle, which means you don't have to worry about model placement inside the terrain piece.

It's one of the better additions with the 5th edition rules, in my opinion.

insaniak wrote:

Diezel wrote:So if i see a squad in a building through a window i cant shoot him with my lasguns etc ( non template)? that seems kinda rediculous...

It's actually a handy way of dealing with the fact that a lot of building terrain pieces aren't constructed in a way that makes it easy or convenient to actually put models inside. Ruins aren't a problem... what you see is what you get. For intact buildings, you just embark as if it was a vehicle, which means you don't have to worry about model placement inside the terrain piece.

It's one of the better additions with the 5th edition rules, in my opinion.

But surely the fact that the weapons squad squad was able to be put inside the bunker means that they can be shot? I mean, the whole tenet of the TLOS is that 'if you can see it, you can shoot it'.

The whole buildings/ruins issue is for solid structures that you cannot physically put models into, for example, the bastion. You need to agree with your opponent beforehand whether models can enter at ground level, in which case it is treated like a vehicle. If they wish to move to the top level, then put them on top, and they can be shot at.

It comes down to the specific terrain.

If it has open sides so that you can just move models directly in, it's better classed as a Ruin rather than a Building. In which case TLOS applies.

If it is fully enclosed with, say, a removable top for placing models inside, it's better classed as a Building. The Building classification isn't just about whether or not the models can be physically placed inside. It's about whether or not the structure is a fully enclosed, intact building.

If it's a Building, then no, it makes no difference whether or not you can put the models inside or whether or not you can see them if you do so. TLOS doesn't apply, as just with transport vehicles there is no need to actually put the models inside. You just remove them from the table.