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Does anyone know of a 15mm cold war minature maker? I was thinking of doing a "Red Army 1950s" themed army for FoW lie some of the Heer 46 projects out there, if there's actually a system that goes with it thats a plus

I know peter pig makes T55s

QRF?

http://www.quickreactionforce.co.uk/

Wow, thatd even got T10s and M103s, pretty rare even in real life

Thanks

EmilCrane wrote:Does anyone know of a 15mm cold war minature maker? I was thinking of doing a "Red Army 1950s" themed army for FoW lie some of the Heer 46 projects out there, if there's actually a system that goes with it thats a plus

I know peter pig makes T55s

You can use Force on Force if you are interested in a rule set.

IIRC there was a game called 'cold war commander' for 6-15mm minis that was free to download. A search should pull it up.

eorltheyoung wrote:IIRC there was a game called 'cold war commander' for 6-15mm minis that was free to download. A search should pull it up.

Not free to download. But a very nice ruleset.

EmilCrane wrote:

I know peter pig makes T55s

Yes they do, but I cant recommend them. Pricey, okay, high quality, okay, but misdetailed and the gunbarrel is totally wrong.

For 1950s soviet arsenal, another good producer is Skytrex and reseller oldgloryUK, but QRF makes pretty much everything you need, even thou the "Motor Rifle Infantry" is bit too modern, but it will propably do (the helmet of 1950s soviet serviceman would be Ssh40 or Ssh40M, as the QRF ones are using higher profile and later model Ssh60 - also the uniform is incorrect, as QRF ones wear "Hebe" model of 1969 fieldsuit, but due to the detail level of QRF, as mentioned, these would propably do their work on the table) - I would recommend you to use Peter Pigs AK47 regular AK helmeted infantry, as the mistake is same (except the helmets are propably right, but field dress is even more screwd up), but quality higher, and the RPG-pack is equipped with RPG-2. Also the LMG pack is available and well equipped with RPD-LMG.

And about the rules; I use Force on Force with cold war addon "Cold War Gone Hot) (which is propably worst addon they have created ) and heavily modified stat tables, as the ambush alleys general mechanism is awesome. BUT its all about what you want - If you want to run few platoons with some support, and see units as groups of soldiers, the FoF is propably your choice. If you want to command more than platoon, Cold War Commander is your choice, where platoons form up from teams.

But yet about the models and things should be noted;

Remember that effects of the Second International Live Fire Excerices still very much excists in soviet union of that era - the red army is in its all time might, with armored equipment unmatchable by west, with service weapon to brcome legend and with loads of warvets still capable in armed service. And in late 1950s, the A-bomb.

But.

Its not as shiny as it might seem - still loads of WW2 equipment in service, fex. PpsH-41 (and variants) served well into the 1960s, (and even later in some god forsaken garrisons in siberia) even as a peace time service weapon as some troops, but in 1950s the most (2nd class) reservist would propably been armed with waist number of WW2 "vintage" - especially in warsaw pact service, fex. in bulgaria the Moisin-nagant, well served bolt action service rifle of red army during WW2, was still produced after the 1940s. But again, a world of choices.

You might have all-tuned up veteran fighting machine, Guards Regiment X, with shiny new AKs, RPDs, RPG-2s, riding to battle in safety of their BTR-50 or BTR-152, with T-55 or T-10 platoon on right, and knowing that MiG-17s and Tu-95s would watch their way to the west.

..Or you might have Reservist Army unit, not too keen to leave the safety of their home town or collective, pretty much forgotten everything trained in compulsory military service in late 1940s, and even less keen to remember it again, sitting in the back of a ZIS-151, holding SKS carbine or PpsH-41, or even mosing-nagant rifle, and with some luck, SGMB MMG, but no hope of squad-carried AT weapon, even thou in two GAZ-67 jeeps behind your truck are brought your company assets, recoilles rifles, and before you left the regrouping area, you saw a quick flick of another reservist unit with T-34/85 or SU-100.

Interesting subject you shall have there, no doubt.

Hope this intel did help, and if didnt, do not hesitate to ask again.

And about the rules; I use Force on Force with cold war addon "Cold War Gone Hot) (which is propably worst addon they have created ) and heavily modified stat tables, as the ambush alleys general mechanism is awesome.

The Universal 4+ rule is great, but I just wanted to ask why Cold War Gone Hot is so bad. I own the Ambush Valley supplement and enjoy it greatly I'm looking into buying CWGH as a friend of mine is really into this sort of Cold War turning warmer thing. What damages it? And any pros?

WhiteBishop wrote:

And about the rules; I use Force on Force with cold war addon "Cold War Gone Hot) (which is propably worst addon they have created ) and heavily modified stat tables, as the ambush alleys general mechanism is awesome.

The Universal 4+ rule is great, but I just wanted to ask why Cold War Gone Hot is so bad. I own the Ambush Valley supplement and enjoy it greatly I'm looking into buying CWGH as a friend of mine is really into this sort of Cold War turning warmer thing. What damages it? And any pros?

I understand your point, and it is absolutely worth of buying if you enjoyed FoF and your into cold war (as I did/was) but it needs heavy improvements in technical data areas if you seek truthfull ways of representing vehicles.

Fex. the vehicle tables, mostly soviet part, is pretty lame, and, again, western vehicles are pretty OP when compared to the real thing, and they lack pretty much of the vehicles.

The heavy vehicles-section includes five (5!) vehicles, and only one variation per vehicle (T-55A, T-62M, T-64BM, T-72A, T-80B), the most important and uptodate vehicles are missing, and generaly, some of the vehicle specs are clearly misprints (if not, I dont know what!), fex. "grom" low-pressure gun has way too low AT-rating and way too high AP rating.
Fex. we lack T-72M1 "monkeymodel" and T-72B with kontakt-1 ERA and improved firing systems - both which were very important in their own way for the fighting strenghts of the soviets, as East Germans armored force was pretty much built around T-72M1 and T-55M during 1985. Also the BTR-50P is one hell of a oddball, as the Portee ZIS-2 AT-gun is ruled as being the fighting gun of the vehicle, but when we come to 1980s, this gun was very much pullen out from the service, and even out from reserves in most cases. Sldo, it was impossible to fire the gun when mounted in back of the BTR-50, as the pressure hit directly to the (open) crew comparement, and also, when crossing waters, it made vehicle instable and impractical, so it was soon removed from strenght - and yeah, there is no mention of vehicle being open topped. And I think there is no need to mention, that there is no single word about BTR-152, -40 or -80.

The Grom-gun was(and still is) used by BMP-1 and BMD-1 IFVs, and thou being pretty much obsolete these days, it was more than a match to western vehicles during its introduction in late 1960s, and even during the early 1990s it wasstill major threat to the light- and medium vehicles, during the Desert Storm at least one Bradley IFV was disabled by this gun. The statline of the gun in CWGH book does not IMO represent gun that could knock-well thrue every MBT of NATO during 1970s..

But still, IMO the worst part is the very complete TO&Es of NATO (& western) armies, but only small attention is paid to the armies of the East - and if we look examples, is rather odd to see swedish "S-tank" included (but no Swedish army TO&Es), or even more odd, there is no Finnish army presented, as if the Sweden is, it should be.

The soviet special rules are OK, but dont seem to be much of specialty, as fex. the Soviet VDV would(&should!) be pretty much out of the both rules included. Also the ground huggers attribute of NATO it pretty much overkill & optimism, as I cant see why wouldnt soviet army employed similiar tactic pretty soon after the effect is seen.

The best part is propably the scenario-part, as most of them seem interesting and there is plenty of them - especially the mission where Bundesgrenzschutz clashes with DDRs cityfighting battallion in western berlin is interesting concept, allthou the game lacks totally the most interesting part of DDRs arsenal; the decoy batallion which was equipped with M46 tanks and M113 APCs captured in Vietnam.

So, yeah - my local gaming club pretty much wrote the vehicle reference tables again, at least those we needed - There are also some flaws in western vehicles, but due they were not my responsibility, I cant recall, which ones

Well to be fair to the Cold War book, and I contributed to it, there was a limit on what we could fit in within the page limit. We would have loved to have covered more nations, but we ran out of space.

I did the NATO OOBs, but I wasnt involved in collating the WARPAC data.

As for the vehicle stats, well they are always a subjective choice, and I think those that did them did a good job in the feel they wanted. Of course they are easy to change if they dont match your perception.

Glad you find the scenarios useful.

Big P wrote:Well to be fair to the Cold War book, and I contributed to it, there was a limit on what we could fit in within the page limit. We would have loved to have covered more nations, but we ran out of space.

"Monetary issues, ruining good stuff since 2500 BC."

Big P wrote:I did the NATO OOBs, but I wasnt involved in collating the WARPAC data.

We had development discussion in last weekend, and few things turned out to be major conversation - why the T-55 is marked to be heavy vehicle, when heavier NATO-equivelants of that era, M46 and AMX-30B2 fex, have been put in as a medium vehicles? Im not sure is this something you can answear, but decided to ask anyway.

To be honest I wasnt responsible for any of the stats... Though Im sure I remarked that the T-55 should be medium in a proof review... Could have been an edit that escaped? Happens, especially with the time constraints put on the books.

Atleast the system is easy to customise to your own preferences.

As for space we had similar issues with my 'Ambush Valley'. We had a ton of OOB data to include and we went with that, but it reduced the amount of scenarios greatly. Some liked it, some didnt but I feel we made the right choice as the data was unique to have in one complete reference point. Plus we intended to do more sourcebooks for Vietnam anyway.

Big P wrote:To be honest I wasnt responsible for any of the stats... Though Im sure I remarked that the T-55 should be medium in a proof review... Could have been an edit that escaped? Happens, especially with the time constraints put on the books.

Too bad thou, would been great spacemaker between T-55 and updated T-62 model.

Big P wrote:
Atleast the system is easy to customise to your own preferences.

Totelly agree - and done allready

Necro'ing this thread slightly (Alot). I can hand on heart say I have enjoyed the shift from FOW to FORCE on FORCE.

Principally this is because if you are a Military minded individual (either through 1st hand experience or just sheer dogged reading and becoming a subject matter expert) I love the FoF ruleset. Things like placing Fireteams on overwatch to cover assaults, the FOG of WAR cards which depict the craziness and randomness of screw ups and stupidness that often affects real world battles.

It all adds up to a much more thoughtout and well balanced experience, even things like Casualties and CASEVAC is better modelled, the Troop Dice is a nice dynamic with the 4+ rule. It models nicely how effective, well trained and lead troops are against irregulars, with even a chance they the Irregulars through happenstance may triumph. The whole thing is fantastic, the problem is making it mainstream. I have like 2-3 regular opponents who are familiar enough with the ruleset to make it fun.

EDIT- Also waiting on QRF's British Cold War Infantry, I did find some nice proxy's at MJ Figures. http://www.mjfigures.co.uk/

Also QRF are brilliant...... The models are much better than Battlefront or other 15mm Producer's, it is almost a paradigm shift in quality.