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So I'm in the process of painting my army, it's going slow and all, but might as well see if my organization seems competent enough to face off most force that I might face. I wasn't really into doing the classic plasma veterans w/chimera squads gimmic, I went with standard platoons.

HQ
CCS
-Vox-caster
-Standard
-Medi-pack
-meltagun
-Plasma Pistol+Power Sword
-CCW

Troops
Squad1
PCS
-Vox-caster
-Plasma pistol+Power Sword
-CCW
-2XFlamer

1xInfantry Squad
-Vox-caster
-Missile Launcher

1xInfantry Squad
-Vox-caster

1x HWT
-3xLascannon

Squad2
PCS
-Vox-caster
-Bolt Pistol
-CCW
-2X Grenade Launcher

1xInfantry Squad
-Vox-caster
-Missile Launcher

1xInfantry Squad
-Vox-caster

1xHWT
3x Mortar

1x Leman Russ
-Battle Cannon
-Lascannon
-Heavy bolter Sponsons
-Extra Armour
-Pintle-mounted Heavy stubber
-Knight commander Pask

It's about 920 points, so I am wondering if I should go with Krak grenades, a Sentinel, more special wepaons for the infantry squads, Marbo or a SWS (grenade launcher) with the remaining points to make a round 1K

EDIT: forgotten the flamer/GL to my 2 PCS

Hey there, Welcome to dakka.

If you arent into chimera vets then a foot guard Army may be the way to go but you still want to bring lots of plasma, meltas or heavy weapons.

CCS is fine its the basic box set but later you'll want to remove the standard, the vox caster, and medi-pack. That will save you a ton of points to allow you to bring 4 meltas or 4 plasmas or a heavy weapon in your CCS

Your Infantry platoons are fine but like mentioned before you will want to upgrade your PCS to have heavy weapons or special weapons. The flamers and grenade launchers wont get much use. You have them now because they come with the squads but you'll probably want to remove them altogether or upgrade them to plasmas or meltas. Some people run flamers in chimeras with there PCS.

Remember that when you have heavy weapons with your infantry squads they cannot fire if they have moved. I personally dont use missle launchers as I prefer Autocannons and Lascannons but to each there own. With a 4+ to hit you will miss a lot.

You will also probably get a lot of flack about your mortars because in most cases AC's or LC's are better because at 1000 points you can expect to see terminators and Armor and you dont have much to fight them off. I personally love Mortars but I use them for small fights arounf 750 points or less.

Leman Russ is probably the best bang for your buck in all of 40k imho. I wouldnt waste the pints on the stubber and extra armor. You are also wasting some points with pask. Pask is great but I usually put him in Punisher.

I'd say your list is the basic list most guard players start with then choose which direction they want to go. Footy or mechanized. Remeber that most of the IG's stregth is either in numbers or sheer FP from Armor.

Grenades in general on guardsmen I have found to be a waste. SWS are pretty good but they get targeted early and without transport will die fairly quickly. People either love sentinels or hate them. I personally haven't found they are worth the points so I never use them but they can be handy at times. Marbo is awesome.

The list is a good start but you wont be as competative until you tune it up a bit. You will have a tough time against mechanized lists.

I'd trade the vox network for two more missle launchers for those naked squads - orders are just a bonus. And I'd probably trade the medic for a lascannon in the CCS. A BS4 lascannon and meltagun, one lascannon battery (near the CCS so both can be twinlinked with BiD) plus the lascannon russ should be decent anti-AV14 at this level. 4 missile launchers backing it up should cover mechanized armies.

I'd also trim the HB's off the russ - keep it lean and mean and able to move and shoot everything. HB rounds could result in wound allocation shenanigans.

I'd give the pcs squads at least 3 flamers/GL's, if not 4. With the rest of the points, it's hard to say - special weapons for the infantry would be the most conservative, leaving enough maybe for a scout sentinel. A plasma sent would be tempting for me. I'm not a huge fan of marbo, but some people love him, and it would give you the ability to threaten whirlwinds or other arty hiding. SWS would be pretty squishy, but keep it cheap and you've got 3 of them (with the pcs's). Krak grenades are probably not needed. And if you're going to bring one bolt pistol, you might as well bring 2 (or a bolter), so you only have one point left over instead of 3. If you do bring a sent, a searchlight for the remaining point is a no-brainer.

murdog wrote:I'd trade the vox network for two more missle launchers for those naked squads - orders are just a bonus. And I'd probably trade the medic for a lascannon in the CCS. A BS4 lascannon and meltagun, one lascannon battery (near the CCS so both can be twinlinked with BiD) plus the lascannon russ should be decent anti-AV14 at this level. 4 missile launchers backing it up should cover mechanized armies.

The only problem with is then ALL his squads essentially become immobile if he needs to take objectives or reposition those extra heavy weapons will be useless.

murdog wrote:I'd also trim the HB's off the russ - keep it lean and mean and able to move and shoot everything. HB rounds could result in wound allocation shenanigans.

Not sure what you mean by this as Lumbering Behemoth allows all weapons on the Russ to fire and the bolter fire would be resolved separately from the Battlecannon.

murdog wrote: I'm not a huge fan of marbo, but some people love him, and it would give you the ability to threaten whirlwinds or other arty hiding.

You are probably the only person I know who doesn't like Marbo. He can come in the game at any moment and be placed anywhere on the board within 1" of any enemy. He has an AP2 pistol that automatically wounds on a 4+ regardless of Toughness and has BS5. His Demo charge is a S8, AP2 Large blast is great for knocking out HQ's vehicles and heavy units (eg Terminators). I personally think it would be a waste to take out a whirlwind with Marbo when regular AC fire can do that.

Not to be a jerk but it sounds like you've never played guard much less even read the codex.

Silentway wrote:The only problem with is then ALL his squads essentially become immobile if he needs to take objectives or reposition those extra heavy weapons will be useless.

Just because your adding a heavy weapon does not preclude movement. Sometimes forgoing a round of shooting to move is just better.

Silentway wrote:

murdog wrote:I'd also trim the HB's off the russ - keep it lean and mean and able to move and shoot everything. HB rounds could result in wound allocation shenanigans.

Not sure what you mean by this as Lumbering Behemoth allows all weapons on the Russ to fire and the bolter fire would be resolved separately from the Battlecannon.

Not to be a jerk but it sounds like you've never read the Lumbering Behemoth rule.

Silentway wrote:Not to be a jerk but it sounds like you've never played guard much less even read the codex.

Wait a minute?!

Barksdale wrote: Not to be a jerk but it sounds like you've never read the Lumbering Behemoth rule.:

A Leman russ that has moved at Combat speed or remained stationary can fire it's turret weapon in addition to any other weapon it is usually allowed to fire (even if the turret weapon is ordnance.)


All weapons may fire. Though not all may hit.

So you can do the battle cannon and bolters if its a blob in front of you or you can say use the BC or the LC if a vehicle is in front of you.


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Barksdale wrote:

Silentway wrote:The only problem with is then ALL his squads essentially become immobile if he needs to take objectives or reposition those extra heavy weapons will be useless.

Just because your adding a heavy weapon does not preclude movement. Sometimes forgoing a round of shooting to move is just better.

And as stated above those heavy weapons then become useless the next shooting phase......run along

Well, I play guard and I've read the codex, that's for sure.

You're misreading the lumbering rule, you've even wrote it out correctly in the post above. If a vehicle moves combat speed, it can fire one main weapon and all defensive (s4) weapons. Heavy bolters are s5, so they are not defensive, so you can only fire one when you move. Lumbering just lets you fire the turret in addition to that, or lets you fire all weapons in addition to the the turret when remaining stationary (usually you can't fire anything else when firing ordnance, even when stationary). So if you move you can fire the turret, plus the hull weapon or a single sponson, plus pintle weapons.

As for resolving wounds, you don't resolve the heavy bolter fire separately from the battle cannon. You fire all the weapons you are going to fire, roll up the wounds for all the hits, and then the opposing player allocates the wounds. This means (depending on the exact situation/number of models/number of wounds) a meq player could end up stacking multiple battle cannon wounds on say one model, and spreading the heavy bolter wounds around to get armour saves. With the lascannon being s9 ap2, it wouldn't make any difference as compared to the s8 ap3 cannon - no saves either way.

As for me being dumb about marbo, I just said I wasn't a big fan, I never said he was a bad choice or a waste of points. As for 'why use marbo to take out a whirlwind when an autocannon can do it', well, what if the whirlwind is out of LoS, which is where whirlwinds tend to be? I'm not sure how much you've played against whirlwinds with your guard, but they are fairly huge threat, what with the cover-ignoring ammo and all. Taking out a whirlwind with marbo would not be a waste - it can remove whole squads from the board at a time, with no way to kill it using direct-fire weaponry.

Barksdale gave a good response to the 'heavy weapons are useless if you move' comment. Useless for a turn, but there are at least 5 turns in a game, and every squad won't move every turn. Run along? Rude, dude, rude.

Look, I don't mind debating tactics, rules and ideas on here, I've been doing it for years, and often take a stance that Dakka does not approve of. But when a dude starts rudely questioning whether or not I play guard and says he doesn't think I've even read the codex, all the while displaying ignorance of the codex and rulebook himself, well I find that slightly annoying.

murdog wrote:Well, I play guard and I've read the codex, that's for sure.

You're misreading the lumbering rule, you've even wrote it out correctly in the post above. If a vehicle moves combat speed, it can fire one main weapon and all defensive (s4) weapons. Heavy bolters are s5, so they are not defensive, so you can only fire one when you move. Lumbering just lets you fire the turret in addition to that, or lets you fire all weapons in addition to the the turret when remaining stationary (usually you can't fire anything else when firing ordnance, even when stationary). So if you move you can fire the turret, plus the hull weapon or a single sponson, plus pintle weapons.

Yes this is exactly what I said, how am I misreading it. You just assumed I was referring to all weapons modeled in a single shooting phase. The OP wants an "all around Army," you accomplish this with bolter sponsons and a hull LC

murdog wrote:As for resolving wounds, you don't resolve the heavy bolter fire separately from the battle cannon. You fire all the weapons you are going to fire, roll up the wounds for all the hits, and then the opposing player allocates the wounds. This means (depending on the exact situation/number of models/number of wounds) a meq player could end up stacking multiple battle cannon wounds on say one model, and spreading the heavy bolter wounds around to get armour saves. With the lascannon being s9 ap2, it wouldn't make any difference as compared to the s8 ap3 cannon - no saves either way.

Depends I always resolve them separately because it is completely different. If the LC and bolters fired then yes I would but the BC is completely different so I always do it separately, I have yet to have another player complain about this.

murdog wrote:As for me being dumb about marbo, I just said I wasn't a big fan, I never said he was a bad choice or a waste of points. As for 'why use marbo to take out a whirlwind when an autocannon can do it', well, what if the whirlwind is out of LoS, which is where whirlwinds tend to be? I'm not sure how much you've played against whirlwinds with your guard, but they are fairly huge threat, what with the cover-ignoring ammo and all. Taking out a whirlwind with marbo would not be a waste - it can remove whole squads from the board at a time, with no way to kill it using direct-fire weaponry.

Where did I say you were dumb? Where did I say, you said he was a bad choice. Stop assuming and putting words in peoples mouth. All I did was merely point out the advantages to taking Marbo. I've played Wirlwinds. Not the least bit concerned about them in most cases.

If your getting annoyed then that's your own problem. PLease explain where I have been ignorant of the rules as I have explained them in detail from the codex. Again you are merely making assumptions





Automatically Appended Next Post:
I apologize if I came off rudely but the OP has our advice and will make a decision off of what we have provided so I am off to other threads, you are more than welcome to rebuttal but it will only further derail this poor chaps thread. See around dakkadakka.

Well, saying that 'You are probably the only person I know who doesn't like Marbo', then listing his benefits and ending with 'it sounds like you've never played guard much less even read the codex' sorta sounds like 'you're dumb' to me. I agree getting annoyed is my own problem.

To point out where you have been ignorant of the rules, well that would be when you sound like you're saying the russ can move and fire everything (I said keep it able to move and shoot everything by leaving the sponsons off, you said 'Not sure what you mean by this as Lumbering Behemoth allows all weapons on the Russ to fire'). Also when you are talking about wound allocation, I'm pretty sure you're not playing the rulebook. That's not assumptions, thats fact.

If you don't want to derail people's threads then disagree politely, and make sure you know the rules before you tell others that they don't.

So, back to the list, there are two serious problems here. The first is that the list is really fragile. This comes from a lack of commissars or some other morale booster in general, and from the low overall model count. The second is that this list has little killing power for its points.

The culprit behind both of these problems comes from the fact that you're spending a lot of points on questionable upgrades. Upgrades should always be taken to improve a unit's killing power. Otherwise, if you want more, then take more units, rather than trying to make the ones you have stronger. It will give you more durability (through redundancy) and more killing power (through more actual weapons) overall.

Ok, thought about it a bit, so here's the list with an added 83 points pumped into it

HQ
CCS
-Vox-caster
-Standard
-Medi-pack
-meltagun
-Plasma Pistol+Power Sword
-CCW

Troops
Squad1
PCS
-Vox-caster
-Plasma pistol+Power Sword
-CCW
-3XFlamer

1xInfantry Squad
-Bolt pistol
-Vox-caster
-Missile Launcher
-Grenade Launcher

1xInfantry Squad
-Vox-caster
-Meltagun

1x HWT
-3xLascannon

Squad2
PCS
-Vox-caster
-Bolt Pistol
-CCW
-3X Grenade Launcher

1xInfantry Squad
-Vox-caster
-Missile Launcher
-Grenade Launcher

1xInfantry Squad
-Vox-caster
-Meltagun

1xHWT
3x Mortar

1xScout Sentinel
-Autocannon
-Search light

1x Leman Russ
-Battle Cannon
-Lascannon
-Heavy bolter Sponsons
-Extra Armour
-Pintle-mounted Heavy stubber
-Knight commander Pask

Comes to 1K exactly.
And I know some weapon might be odd (officer with a bolt pistol outta the blue, or one with plasma/power c-c-c-combo) but those are pewter minis, and I'm just starting to get the hang of modding plastics, so one thing at a time.

I hate to say it, but...

Ailaros wrote:So, back to the list, there are two serious problems here. The first is that the list is really fragile. This comes from a lack of commissars or some other morale booster in general, and from the low overall model count. The second is that this list has little killing power for its points.

The culprit behind both of these problems comes from the fact that you're spending a lot of points on questionable upgrades. Upgrades should always be taken to improve a unit's killing power. Otherwise, if you want more, then take more units, rather than trying to make the ones you have stronger. It will give you more durability (through redundancy) and more killing power (through more actual weapons) overall.

... all of this is still true. The killing power has gotten better, but it's still not great, and it's still too fragile.

Well, I wanted just s simple army I can just play around with it, nothing competitive or anything like that.

I do plan on having a commissar or two here and there, add some Sentinels perhaps even a hellhound or some arty. I just want tog et something decent and get painting rather than going back to 'the drawing board' so to speak looking for the win at all cost lineup.

More into fluff than competition, actually.