Ongoing Effects and Ever-Living

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**WhiteWolf01**

Lets say a unit of necrons and royal court member are effected by a psychic power (lets say doom). This power lasts until the start of the eldar's next turn. What if the unit is wiped on the turn the doom was cast, but the court member returns. Is doom still in effect? Does the ongoing effect end when the unit leaves play (as they are removed as casualties according to RP and EL)?

**THE_GODLYNESS**

Well the unit has doom. Is he part of the unit when Gw comes back. If yes. Then yes.

**Randall Turner**

This isn't interesting for a Royal Court member. He's basically always a part of the unit. For an independent IC it'd go through to the end of the next Necron movement phase.

**WhiteWolf01**

Ok, I see what you mean. Though for an IC it goes through to the end of the next Necron movement phase? Not quite following you on that one. I'm sure this has been answered before, but what if the IC leaves the unit? Is he still effected by powers that originally targeted the unit? I want to say it doesn't for some reason, but I am not sure.

**rigeld2**

That's his point. The IC leaves at the end of the next Necron movement phase, so is no longer effected.

**WhiteWolf01**

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

**Drunkspleen**

WhiteWolf01 wrote:Ok, I see what you mean. Though for an IC it goes through to the end of the next Necron movement phase? Not quite following you on that one. I'm sure this has been answered before, but what if the IC leaves the unit? Is he still effected by powers that originally targeted the unit? I want to say it doesn't for some reason, but I am not sure.

Technically I don't think you can leave a unit except in the movement phase, by ending the IC's move out of coherency with the unit in question, I think even if the unit in question is shot to death in the enemy turn, the IC that was attached has to continue to be attached until his own player's movement phase at which point he can unattach by moving out of coherency (which is guaranteed to happen since there is no longer a unit to be in coherency with).

Of course, this causes problems for the Necron Everliving rule which tells you if he is attached to a unit to place him back in coherency with that unit, which technically can't be done for a unit that there is no remaining member of, however, this problem can arise even if you reject my hypothesis that killing the unit doesn't detach the IC, simply by the IC dying and going into the everliving token state prior to the rest of the unit being killed in the same phase, so there needs to be some way to resolve that issue anyway.

Fundamentally I believe if Doom has been cast on a unit including an IC, the IC will be affected by it even if the remainder of his unit dies, Everliving has no effect on this as it returns the model to play, so he should still have prior effects on him because it's not a new model, it's the same one, and even if his unit has been wiped out when he returns, he is still a part of that unit until his movement phase.

Also relevant here I think is the note about characters not being sufficient, on their own, to allow reanimation protocols, the following line to me suggests that a character is otherwise still a part of a unit that has been killed while he is attached to it:

Note that characters do not count as part of the unit for the purposes of reanimation protocols - if a character is the only survivor of a unit, his presence is not sufficient to allow a reanimation protocols roll

**Lordhat**

I've brought this subject up several times in other threads and people seem to want to ignore my posts about it. maybe we'll get some discussion on it this time. My thoughts on the matter:

Lordhat wrote:The question should be "Does a unit with Ever Living have a 'memory' of it's status if it is removed as a casualty, and comes back?"
If yes, then:

A fleeing unit with EL continues fleeing after passing it's RP roll.
A pinned or GtG unit remains so after passing it's RP roll.
A unit that was in a wrecked transport that moved flat out cannot assault after passing it's RP roll.
A unit affected by Entropic Strike will continue to have an armour save of - after passing it's RP roll.
A unit under the effect of Weaken Resolve will still have a modified Ld Stat after passing it's RP roll.
A unit that has used the Emergency Disembark rule that turn will still be unable to do anything until the end of that turn after passing it's RP roll.

And probably more.

If no, then all these will be the opposite.

My opinion is that the answer should be yes it does. All of these effects happen to the unit for a specified duration; if the unit exists it is subject to these effects until that duration is over. The fact that the unit 'died' is inconsequential. RP does not create new units, it restores units to play.

**WhiteWolf01**

First off, I did search for anything related to what I was looking for using the search function. I didn't happen to find any threads concerning my word choices so I decided to make this one. That said you bring up some interesting points. According to the dex it says: "Note that characters do not count as part of the unit for reanimation protocols". I think this is to prevent the EL counter from being removed concerning fall back moves and such as it is for normal reanimation protocols. It seems that it acts as its own separate entity if I am reading it correctly. However under EL it says if it returns, the character must be placed within coherency of they unit it was originally a part of. If that is the case and the unit in question is falling back due to shooting then yes I would agree it joins that unit and falls back with them. However, I think if the unit it was in was completely destroyed and your IC returns it is no longer considered a part of that unit since the unit no longer exists. I believe this only applies to ICs with ever-living and not royal court members. The royal court if I am not mistaken starts off as a unit itself and then you can split them off in deployment. I don't think there is any question about that. Any effects that are ongoing on a royal court I would think stay with it when they come back as it is still the same unit. If it is just an IC I don't feel the effects apply any longer once he pops back up and is all alone.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slightly off topic, but I also couldn't find any thread on this either, but I'm sure one exists somewhere.

What is the general consensus on using the monolith to return a falling unit back to play through the eternity gate?

**Lordhat**

Let me clarify: My post concerns mainly units of one model which has the EL rule. If this unit is wiped out while under an ongoing effect, do those effects still apply if it passes it's RP roll?

**WhiteWolf01**

Ah, ok. That is what you meant. I honestly am unsure. The rules don't specify whatsoever. Even when comparing it to a similar character such as Yarrick it doesn't say. Only St. Celestine's rules specifically state she can act normally upon returning with her miraculous intervention rule. It would almost seem to defeat the purpose of EL if you reanimated just so that you could run away. But consider this, according to EL if the IC or whoever died and wasn't in a unit to start with, he is able to reanimate next to a unit and become a part of it. Does that unit now fall away if your IC was previously falling back? I personally don't think it would because that would just be ridiculous. I think the way the rules were meant to be was that your model returns and can act normally, but rules as written it isn't so clear.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heh, ignore that comparison about Yarrick. I forgot he is fearless. Though I think certain things would stay with him such as ongoing psychic powers I would think.

**Lordhat**

Per the BGB, IC's cannot join or leave units while either are falling back.

**copper.talos**

When you are removed from play you are not part of the unit any more. EL describes when an IC returns to play how to join himself to another unit. Then the IC will be under the same effect of the unit it has joined (whuch may be not the original one) ie gone to ground pinned etc

If he was joined to a unit that was doomed and then all it's members were killed but afterwards the IC returned to play, he has formed his own unit and he's not under the effects of doom. If the IC didn't join a unit, was doomed, killed and then returns to play, then he stays doomed.

**bagtagger**

I want to clarify that the search option never acutally finds anything for me - so don't go so hard on someone who asks a question that may have been answered 3 months ago.

**Randall Turner**

bagtagger wrote:I want to clarify that the search option never acutally finds anything for me - so don't go so hard on someone who asks a question that may have been answered 3 months ago.

It's no biggy. Don't use the Dakka site search box. Go to Google, search with "site:dakkadakka.com whatever" and you can find stuff in a second, ie, in the Google search type...

site:dakkadakka.com ever living effects joining units

Automatically Appended Next Post:

copper.talos wrote:If he was joined to a unit that was doomed and then all it's members were killed but afterwards the IC returned to play, he has formed his own unit and he's not under the effects of doom. If the IC didn't join a unit, was doomed, killed and then returns to play, then he stays doomed.

Hmm... subtly different than how I understood it. I should stop answering these questions on memory.

**copper.talos**

This is just my opinion. To be honest I am not 100% certain as there is no precedent how such effects interract with returned to play models.

**WhiteWolf01**

I can at least now answer the falling back scenario. According to BGB a unit falls back UNTIL the unit regroups, is destroyed, OR LEAVES THE TABLE. So in case of our Necron Overlord friend, even if he is falling back, dies, but then reanimates, he is no longer falling back according to this.