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So I'm just getting into Eldar and I'm attempting to build a list, and I'm running into a couple of speed bumps. I've been watching youtube vids and reading forums, but I'm still torn.

My first question is what is the point of the Falcon? It costs 25 more points initially, and the only added benefit over the Wave Serpent that I see is the holo fields at an additional 35 points. The weapon upgrades for the Wave Serpent are twin-linked, and the Wave Serpent has a higher transport capacity and doesn't take up a force organization slot. I just don't see much of a use for the Falcon, but I know people use them. What am I missing?

I've also seen a lot of mixed feelings about Night Spinners... My initial idea was to take 3 of them. Imagine the stopping power that would have... Get a shooty, mobile Eldar list with 3 twin-linked barrage shots that force difficult and dangerous terrain checks? Sounds outrageous to me.

So far my list includes 2 squads of 10 Dire Avengers, each with an Exarch with 2 Shuriken Catapaults and Bladestorm (32 x 2 strength 4 ap 5 shots and can still move/assault? Yes please), 2 Farseers with Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Doom and Guide (32 x 2 strength 4 ap 5 shots, can still move/assault, with re-rolls to hit AND wound? YES PLEASE!), and 2 Wave Serpents with vectored engines, spirit stones, and I can't decide between twin-linked Shuriken Cannons or Scatter lasers.

Either way that is just under 900 points, which is a feth ton for a list with just 2 troop choices with dedicated transports and 2 HQs, but it seems worth it. I'm just having trouble picking the rest of it. I feel pretty strongly about the 3 Night Spinners. At that point I feel like that would be the perfect anti-infantry army, I would just need some anti-vehicle choices in there... I also understand that this list is extremely fragile, but with the stopping power of those Night Spinners I think it might work.

Criticism wanted!

The thing is Wave Serpents shrug off melta which is the most common form of anti tank. Falcons pay a premium for versatility as they are both a gun boat and transport.

Frankly they also compete for a very tight Heavy Support slot in the eldar codex. While Wave Serpents don't take up a slot at all. And when you compare the out put a falcon can generate vs a wave serpent it's hard to justify the premium of points spent on the falcon.

On the other hand if you have a heavy support slot open a falcon can be useful as a back field objective camper. Jut give it an EML and holo fields and a 5 man DA squad to make it scoring and it is very difficult to shift from an objective.

As for you night spinner question I swear by my spinners I run 2 in most lists. If you go that route however realize they are only effective at anti-infantry so you will need to make up for a lack of anti-tank. Night Spinners can be a very effective unit but you have to build around them.

Serpents are the way to go when you plan a mech Eldar army. They are hard to take down thanks to their energy fields, and they can carry a decent tl gun.
Falcons are a bit outdated in the 5th ed. They are too expensive for what they can achieve and compete with other units in the HS slot that seem to be more useful these days.

In 4th ed falcons were almost impossible to kill.

bagtagger wrote:In 4th ed falcons were almost impossible to kill.

In fact, it was too easy to field Falcons in the 4th ed. Now a mech Eldar army needs more skill.

I use falcons in my Eldar army every once in a while. I like to throw Eldrad or a farseer in there and either the DAVU (5 man Dire Avengers Unit) or a couple fire dragons. I fortune and guide it... then shoot shoot shoot. If it gets stunned or shaken at then i still have an semi effective payload to use (the dragons), or it is a huge mobile scoring unit (thanks spirit stones!)... a tough nut to crack as well.

Although usually if I am running Mechdar - I use 2 prisms and one night spinner traditionally.... a Falcon is a nice option as it is the only one of our tanks which carries more than one gun! (not counting the chin mounted shuriken cannons)

For backfield objective squatting and long range shooting I'd say the falcon. Long range anti tank is mostly missiles and psyfleman and lanceteks which are already s8 anyway so holo>energy and the falcon can take a weapon destroyed on the chin and still be relevant and eml vs eml it gets .75 more s8 hits vanilla and 1.5 more s8 hits guided than a serpent.

As a transport or aggressive skirmisher and objective taker i'd say the serpent. Melta protection, higher transport capacity, cheaper, and twin-linked by default means you either don't need a farseer nearby or he can be guiding more important short range shooters like bladestorming avengers or dragons.

At the end of the day, a Falcon is one less Fire Prism or one less Warp Hunter. A Wave Serpent is not. This is all there is to it, really.

bagtagger wrote:In 4th ed falcons were almost impossible to kill.

If I am not mistaken (I never played 4th), this was due to Skimmers providing a near constant smoke launcher, forcing glancing hits regardless, and the glancing hit table being generally much kinder to vehicles. Add to the fact that a Holo-Field bumped down the results to be nearly, or completely, meaningless this meant the Falcon was nearly indestructible. Since Wave Serpents can't take Holo-Fields, well Eldar crammed their toughest units in Falcons instead (and weren't disembarkation rules kinder to non-open topped as well?)
That's history lessons, though.

Wave Serpents and Falcons are different, because the wave serpent is a dedicated transport, and a falcon takes the Heavy spot.

The only strength of the falcon is that it is a solid scoring unit, and with holofields and cover its really hard to kill from long range.

The strength of the wave serpent is close range durability, negating meltas.

Wave serpents generally get close to your enemy, while Falcons do not.

one of my groups regular players field 5 Serpents and 2 Prisms. Fielded up, with Spirit stones. He is very tough to play against, especially for my marines. AND FAST.

I love my Falcon, but you gotta play em right. Unless you really want to get dangerous in one (Fortune it with Holo-fields and run a Seer-Council up) it is best to keep it far away. Serpents are your down and dirty transport.

They have different roles so try not to compare the two too much. The Falcon is a backfield Gunboat, it offers firepower somewhere in between a Serpent and a War Walker with more durability than both. Its worth noting that you can Guide Falcons, which early game tends to be your only real option for a power to use since Doom won't be in range (and the offensive powers are bad). With Holos Falcons are an absolute nightmare to kill from range, realistically you need to hit them with something with AP1 (i.e Melta) to reliably drop them and since you are mobile and have no need to push forward its easy to avoid it. Because of this they are one of the best objective holders in the game, you keep them safe at range, can run away from things pretty quickly and keep 5 Avengers very safe.

The Serpent on the other hand is a dedicated transport (and yes both it and the Falcon are about 20pts too expensive but moving on) and is perfectly suited for pushing forward since it ignores melta. That makes it the obvious choice for units like Dragons which have to get in close, as well as aggressive anti infantry units like Flamer Guardians.

Personally I would recommend that almost every mech Eldar army run at least one Falcon with DAVU. 2 Prisms is all you need for the linked shot (3 is overkill), and any more than 2 Night Spinners is overkill for anti infantry imo (you can clip multiple units with it per shot to get the dangerous effect anyway, which is its best effect). Importantly it helps your fragile/terrible scoring units, with a Falcon you at least have one scoring unit which will survive most games, so going into a 1750pt game with only 3 scoring units isn't quite so bad.

@ The OP. Obviously it changes based on the size of the game you are talking about, but the combination you have described is essentially 900pts of short ranged anti infantry, and is incredibly inefficient. Under good conditions it maybe kills a squad of Marines (combined!!), anything weaker hides in cover and probably lives as well (as they probably have more than 10 guys if they aren't Marines), and then you get shot to pieces/eaten in assault in return. More problematic is the fact that its going to leave you with very few points to get anti tank options, which is going to be magnified further if you added 3 Spinners in as well. Fire Dragons are the obvious option (two units minimum), but you actually need more than just this, you need some long range S8/massed S6 shooting which can open some vehicles up as well as using 5 Dragons to pop a Rhino is going to lose you games.

Powerguy wrote:They have different roles so try not to compare the two too much. The Falcon is a backfield Gunboat, it offers firepower somewhere in between a Serpent and a War Walker with more durability than both. Its worth noting that you can Guide Falcons, which early game tends to be your only real option for a power to use since Doom won't be in range (and the offensive powers are bad). With Holos Falcons are an absolute nightmare to kill from range, realistically you need to hit them with something with AP1 (i.e Melta) to reliably drop them and since you are mobile and have no need to push forward its easy to avoid it. Because of this they are one of the best objective holders in the game, you keep them safe at range, can run away from things pretty quickly and keep 5 Avengers very safe.

The Serpent on the other hand is a dedicated transport (and yes both it and the Falcon are about 20pts too expensive but moving on) and is perfectly suited for pushing forward since it ignores melta. That makes it the obvious choice for units like Dragons which have to get in close, as well as aggressive anti infantry units like Flamer Guardians.

Personally I would recommend that almost every mech Eldar army run at least one Falcon with DAVU. 2 Prisms is all you need for the linked shot (3 is overkill), and any more than 2 Night Spinners is overkill for anti infantry imo (you can clip multiple units with it per shot to get the dangerous effect anyway, which is its best effect). Importantly it helps your fragile/terrible scoring units, with a Falcon you at least have one scoring unit which will survive most games, so going into a 1750pt game with only 3 scoring units isn't quite so bad.

@ The OP. Obviously it changes based on the size of the game you are talking about, but the combination you have described is essentially 900pts of short ranged anti infantry, and is incredibly inefficient. Under good conditions it maybe kills a squad of Marines (combined!!), anything weaker hides in cover and probably lives as well (as they probably have more than 10 guys if they aren't Marines), and then you get shot to pieces/eaten in assault in return. More problematic is the fact that its going to leave you with very few points to get anti tank options, which is going to be magnified further if you added 3 Spinners in as well. Fire Dragons are the obvious option (two units minimum), but you actually need more than just this, you need some long range S8/massed S6 shooting which can open some vehicles up as well as using 5 Dragons to pop a Rhino is going to lose you games.

Fantastic response... I've always read about people using Falcons for the Fire Dragons, but I like the way you utilize them a lot better. I'll most certainly be revising my list. I think I'm just not used to seeing such a useful dedicated transport compared to a heavy support.

Powerguy has always good advices to give. But at the end, you'll only learn how to play Eldar by practicing and not from the forum. It can be a strong army but sometimes (in the recent RTTs) I felt that there are more and more uphill battles to play, especially against the new shiny armies like BA, SW, GK, and IG. DE is not so much a problem for mech Eldar when it comes to shooting. Its rather easy to take down all their paper thin skimmers. But the new component is the cc capabilitites of DE hitting skimmers in the rear. Fast DE units like Hellions or Beastmaster packs (coming out of a portal) can easily threaten your precious tanks.