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Hq

x2 librarians with jetpack and hand flamer (135)

elites

x2 chaplins with hand flamer melta bomb and jet pack (140)

x2 sanguinary priests with power fist hand flamer melta bomb and jet pack 115

troops

x2 assault squad with melta bomb 2 melta guns hand flamer and power fist 250


what should i add next??

libby priest and chaplin goes in 1 squad

Whoa, that list is really character heavy. Have you actually tested it? I can't see how it would possibly win, especially in objective missiles.

I just don't think you should take more than 1 libby and 3 priests, even up to 2000 pts. Chaplains are basically adding nothing to that list at all.

lunarman wrote:Whoa, that list is really character heavy. Have you actually tested it? I can't see how it would possibly win, especially in objective missiles.

I just don't think you should take more than 1 libby and 3 priests, even up to 2000 pts. Chaplains are basically adding nothing to that list at all.

i have tested it in small games and it works amazeing reroll hits on the charge psyic powers fnp and fureous charge all the good stuff i would mabe drop the hand flamers for extra points but i was thinking of adding death comp in a storm raven

Hand flamers are wastes of points on every level.

Never put initiative modifying weapons (PFists/klaws/etc) on independent characters. Doing so is an excellent way of getting them killed before they can even attack back - especially with the rules on ICs in assaults.

Specialize your units, i.e. melta/fist or flamer/pw. Mixing the two is Bad, as you'll generally end up "wasting"* one or more of your options.

In general, you only need one priest for every 2 assault squads (or portions thereof, so 2 priests for 3-4 squads, 3 for 5-6 etc), and you want to keep them as naked as possible and protect them as best as possible. I've gotten in quite a few arguments here because my tactic is generally dependent on screening/los to protect mine while others prefer attaching to squads. Use your own judgment.

Also in general, only use a single HQ for anything up to 1750 points. At 1850 points, feel free to add a second HQ - other than that, they're pretty expensive and the points could be better spent elsewhere; for instance, a librarian with JP will set you back 125 points. That same 125 points will buy you a 5man scout squad with camo cloaks, missile launcher, sniper rifles, meltabombs and a locator beacon. That's a better option for most armies than a second HQ.

What it looks like you're doing here is building two mini-death stars. Any reasonably equipped army with a non-mouthbreather as general should be able to table you by turn 3, possibly 4 at the latest.



* An argument could be made about never being able to waste a meltagun shot, as it'll instakill almost anything and wounds almost anything on a 2+ while being AP1, but the point is that it's still an antitank weapon that you're using on a "non-optimal" target. After all, sure you can vaporize that 6 point guardsman, but the 150 point Leman Russ that you ignored to do so will like to have a word with you afterward.

Chesh wrote:Hand flamers are wastes of points on every level.

Never put initiative modifying weapons (PFists/klaws/etc) on independent characters. Doing so is an excellent way of getting them killed before they can even attack back - especially with the rules on ICs in assaults.

Specialize your units, i.e. melta/fist or flamer/pw. Mixing the two is Bad, as you'll generally end up "wasting"* one or more of your options.

In general, you only need one priest for every 2 assault squads (or portions thereof, so 2 priests for 3-4 squads, 3 for 5-6 etc), and you want to keep them as naked as possible and protect them as best as possible. I've gotten in quite a few arguments here because my tactic is generally dependent on screening/los to protect mine while others prefer attaching to squads. Use your own judgment.

Also in general, only use a single HQ for anything up to 1750 points. At 1850 points, feel free to add a second HQ - other than that, they're pretty expensive and the points could be better spent elsewhere; for instance, a librarian with JP will set you back 125 points. That same 125 points will buy you a 5man scout squad with camo cloaks, missile launcher, sniper rifles, meltabombs and a locator beacon. That's a better option for most armies than a second HQ.

What it looks like you're doing here is building two mini-death stars. Any reasonably equipped army with a non-mouthbreather as general should be able to table you by turn 3, possibly 4 at the latest.



* An argument could be made about never being able to waste a meltagun shot, as it'll instakill almost anything and wounds almost anything on a 2+ while being AP1, but the point is that it's still an antitank weapon that you're using on a "non-optimal" target. After all, sure you can vaporize that 6 point guardsman, but the 150 point Leman Russ that you ignored to do so will like to have a word with you afterward.

thank you this helps alot i will now edit my list

way too many independent characters. you only have 2 squads on the board. plasma cannons are going to ruin your day . also dont get sucked in by handheld versions of assault weapons they are pretty inferior to the normal versions. as has already been said, drop the power fists on the priests. their purpose is to act as a force multiplier and you dont want them swinging last in close combat as they can be targeted (IC) and if they get taken out your frenzied blood angel assault marines just turn into pretty much basic assault marines. Im not sure what powers your librarians have but im assuming they have the most common jump pack list ones, unleash rage and shield of sanguinius, making the chaplains special rule pointless? (unleash rage allows re rolls to hit in close combat, in either players assault phase and not just on the charge).

My suggestions would be, drop handheld versions of assualt weapons, drop the fists from the priests, drop the chaplains, and add in more bodies (10 man assault squads)

cmjs123 wrote:way too many independent characters. you only have 2 squads on the board. plasma cannons are going to ruin your day . also dont get sucked in by handheld versions of assault weapons they are pretty inferior to the normal versions. as has already been said, drop the power fists on the priests. their purpose is to act as a force multiplier and you dont want them swinging last in close combat as they can be targeted (IC) and if they get taken out your frenzied blood angel assault marines just turn into pretty much basic assault marines. Im not sure what powers your librarians have but im assuming they have the most common jump pack list ones, unleash rage and shield of sanguinius, making the chaplains special rule pointless? (unleash rage allows re rolls to hit in close combat, in either players assault phase and not just on the charge).

My suggestions would be, drop handheld versions of assualt weapons, drop the fists from the priests, drop the chaplains, and add in more bodies (10 man assault squads)

why the chaplins they add rerolls AND I NEED REROLLS!!!

Unleash rage (preferred enemy) does exactly the same thing but better. you can use it in both your assault phase and your opponents, also it is not only able to be used on the charge.

cmjs123 wrote:Unleash rage (preferred enemy) does exactly the same thing but better. you can use it in both your assault phase and your opponents, also it is not only able to be used on the charge.

ah ok i read the rule wrong i thought it worked only for the libby thanks for freeing up 140 points

Yup Yup, one good librarian is better then 2 Chaplins.

So your list will look my list then???

HQ
. . . . . Librarian ( Unleash Rage, and shield of sanguinius) + Jet Pack

Elete
. . . . . Sanguinary Priest + Melta Bomb + Jet Pack
. . . . . Sanguinary Priest + Melta Bomb + Jet Pack

Troops
. . . . . ( x 10 ) Assaut Squad with Jet Pack + 1 PF +2 MG + 1 Combi Melta
. . . . . ( x 10 ) Assaut Squad with Jet Pack + 1 PF +2 MG + 1 Combi Melta
. . . . . ( x 10 ) Assaut Squad with Jet Pack + 1 PF +2 MG + 1 Combi Melta
. . . . . Scouts with cloaks + locator Becan

new list

hq

libby + epsitolary + jet pack (175)

mephiston (250)

elites

sanguinary squad + jet pack ( 75 )

troops

assault squad + power fist + x2 melta ( 235)

9 death company + lemartes ( 330)

death company dreadnought + heavy flamer + grapple (150)

heavy support

storm raven gunship + hurricane bolters + assult cannon + mm (230)

1445 points ill just throw melta bombs or fist or sword here or there how is this list now


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Adrian Fue Fue wrote:Yup Yup, one good librarian is better then 2 Chaplins.

So your list will look my list then???

HQ
. . . . . Librarian ( Unleash Rage, and shield of sanguinius) + Jet Pack

Elete
. . . . . Sanguinary Priest + Melta Bomb + Jet Pack
. . . . . Sanguinary Priest + Melta Bomb + Jet Pack

Troops
. . . . . ( x 10 ) Assaut Squad with Jet Pack + 1 PF +2 MG + 1 Combi Melta
. . . . . ( x 10 ) Assaut Squad with Jet Pack + 1 PF +2 MG + 1 Combi Melta
. . . . . ( x 10 ) Assaut Squad with Jet Pack + 1 PF +2 MG + 1 Combi Melta
. . . . . Scouts with cloaks + locator Becan

to be quite honest i hate it when they have 1 thing and not all the same i would have it that either all 3 get prist and 1 gets the special or all 3 of them get the same thing i prefer to have everything nice and even but thats just me i hate that people use 1 priest for every 2 squads it annoys the hell out of me that and you must stick together what if you must spread out

are you using unleash rage and shield of sanguinius for your librarian? if so lose the epistolary upgrade, as:
- unleash rage, may be used in either players assault phase
- shield of sanguinius, used in your opponents shooting phase.

sometimes it does come in useful but majority of the time it is not needed, unless you play against a lot of monstorous creatures and you want to re roll to hit and force weapon them in the same turn

cmjs123 wrote:are you using unleash rage and shield of sanguinius for your librarian? if so lose the epistolary upgrade, as:
- unleash rage, may be used in either players assault phase
- shield of sanguinius, used in your opponents shooting phase.

sometimes it does come in useful but majority of the time it is not needed, unless you play against a lot of monstorous creatures and you want to re roll to hit and force weapon them in the same turn

unleash rage and sanguine sword

ah ok, have you thought about using the might of heroes power?

that way you could potentially give your powerfist sergeant 6 attacks on the charge?

cmjs123 wrote:ah ok, have you thought about using the might of heroes power?

that way you could potentially give your powerfist sergeant 6 attacks on the charge?

i prefer the st 10 sword :3 well i get st 10 for charging with power fists because of furious charge

also give priest power fist or no?

Now you only have 1 scoing unit, unless you combat squad. At 1500 points you need 2 scoring units or more. All you opponent has to do is focus fire on that one squad and then only take one objective.

You need more assault squads.

Drop the grapple, drop the epsitolary, drop lemartes and drop the huricane bolters and get anohter assault squad with PF and 2 x melta. You DC need a PF or aTH, if I was playing you I stick a AV13 vehicle in their path and then they do nothing and still get to shoot.

optimusprime14 wrote:Now you only have 1 scoing unit, unless you combat squad. At 1500 points you need 2 scoring units or more. All you opponent has to do is focus fire on that one squad and then only take one objective.

You need more assault squads.

Drop the grapple, drop the epsitolary, drop lemartes and drop the huricane bolters and get anohter assault squad with PF and 2 x melta. You DC need a PF or aTH, if I was playing you I stick a AV13 vehicle in their path and then they do nothing and still get to shoot.

the dc where getting one or 2 and a melta bomb legamary is a must because i always roll horrably (on a WS 10 blood thurster with 6 attacks i miss them all :L ) (and die form 10 pistol shot to orks as space marines :L ) i need storm bolter so it can be effective and ill drop the epsitolary


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ok scraped the upgrade on the libby scraped upgrades on dread and added tac marines in a drop pod (mephiston is with the dc as a human shield and his ST 10 attacks can kill it) and give the libby melta bombs

jbsnv wrote:

cmjs123 wrote:ah ok, have you thought about using the might of heroes power?

that way you could potentially give your powerfist sergeant 6 attacks on the charge?

i prefer the st 10 sword :3 well i get st 10 for charging with power fists because of furious charge

also give priest power fist or no?

sergeants will hit at strength 9. you always double the strength and then add modifiers, dont gear your priest up for combat as you want to, if possible keep him out of base contact, keep him at the back of the squad. if you really want to give the priest some wargear i would give him a power weapon at most. i suggested might of heroes as you are increasing the amount of high strength attacks you get, usually meaning a potential 6 dead enemies from just the sergeant alone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also mephiston cannot join units as he is not an independent character, so even if he is "with" a squad, enemies can still target him with shooting and close combat attacks you need to keep him out of your enemies line of sight until he is in range to do some damage.

At 1500 points, stay very far away from two HQs. Also, stay away from special characters - their point cost is too high at that limit, and you'd be better served getting the things you need to counteract the marines weaknesses at "low" points; that is, more bodies.

Also, I've found that very few characters have any kind of synergy with an army compared to the "standard" HQ choices - outside FOC modification, anyway. Sanguinor is a prime example of one that DOES - his blessing turns a random sergeant into a mini-HQ, but most special characters are self serving bastards that do nothing for the rest of your army, although they do generally tend to be pretty badass on their own.

Epistolary upgrades sound nice, until you realize that you really don't need (or in some cases e.g. Eldrad on the board, want) to use two powers in a single turn. In general, BA librarians should have two powers: Shield of Sanguinius and something else. Yes, shield is just that good. Considering that shield takes effect in your opponent's shooting phase, you're free to use your secondary power during your own phase, thus eliminating the need to waste points on an overcosted upgrade.

Drop, or cut the DC WAY down. 330 points is over 1/5th of your entire army on a single squad that's going to be rage-kited. In larger games, the DC is okay (although it's still a waste of points IMO), but at 1500 points, you need your entire army to work for you, rather than against you. Having an element that big working against you will lose you more games than the awesome power of a charging death company will win you. If you really want a DC Dreadnought - and I don't blame you, they're amazing - then take 5 naked death company marines.

Hurricane bolters on a stormraven are wasted points. I'm actually not a fan of hurricane bolters at all, truth be told. Bolters aren't awesome weapons to begin with, so 6 twin-linked bolters are just meh, and again, the points could be better spent elsewhere.

Here is what i would do to your list

librian
SoS
UR
jump pack

2 sanguary preist

jump packs

2 assualt squads
2 meltas
1 powerfist

1 assault squad
2 flammers
1hand flammer and powerfist

scout squad
missle launcher
sniper rifles

3 predators
autocannon
lascannon

This list has alot of Anti-armor as well as alot of Armor 13. The assault mairnes move up and assault and the flammer squad take out hordes.

If you do want a character in you list, take at look at my list below,

Mephiston - 250

Sang.Priest x 2Jp 125
Assualt Terminators 3 x LC 2 x TH 210

Assualt Marines Melta.Melta.Powerfist 235
Assualt Marines Melta.Melta.Powerfist 235
Assualt Marines Flamer.Flamer.Lighting claw 215
Scouts, Snipers, Camo cloaks, Missile Launcher 100

Devastators - 4 x Missile Launchers 130
1500

Drop the sanguinary guard and dev squad, then stick the termies in a land raider crusader and that actually doesn't look half bad.

Footslogging termies generally don't perform well at all. They get shot to hell in a turn, then don't have the numbers to really do much once they get into CC. Also, without the frag launchers on the LRC, all your opponent has to do is get you to assault into cover, and it's pretty much over for that 210 point investment.

wpago wrote:Here is what i would do to your list

librian
SoS
UR
jump pack

2 sanguary preist

jump packs

2 assualt squads
2 meltas
1 powerfist

1 assault squad
2 flammers
1hand flammer and powerfist

scout squad
missle launcher
sniper rifles

3 predators
autocannon
lascannon

This list has alot of Anti-armor as well as alot of Armor 13. The assault mairnes move up and assault and the flammer squad take out hordes.

dont have any rhinos and prefer to try and make at least 2 similar squads or at least make it even >.<

i prefer blood lance then sos because i always fail 5++


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldercaveman wrote:If you do want a character in you list, take at look at my list below,

Mephiston - 250

Sang.Guard Jp 125
Assualt Terminators 3 x LC 2 x TH 210

Assualt Marines Melta.Melta.Powerfist 235
Assualt Marines Melta.Melta.Powerfist 235
Assualt Marines Flamer.Flamer.Lighting claw 215
Scouts, Snipers, Camo cloaks, Missile Launcher 100

Devastators - 4 x Missile Launchers 130
1500

like the idea but 1 smaaaaaaal problum NO PRIEST!!

My list i offered dosent use a single rhino

wpago wrote:My list i offered dosent use a single rhino

rhino chasis aka i dont have anything even to proxy for a preaditor

Saying you roll bad isn't an excuse. In all reality you probably roll average it's just that you tend to only remember when you roll bad. Following your logic you shouldn't even play space marines, you should play ork or IG, then you don't need to worry about amrour saves

You seem like you want to use Mephy and DC. So use them but remember that both these units, while great in a vaccuum need support on the table. They should, at most, be 40% of your total point cost, and that is alot. I would be comfortable with them at 30-35%. You still need 2 scoring units, be it assault marines or scouts. Tac marines don't fit will in the list you are attempting.

Put the units you want in your list and then fill it out, if you don't have enough points for proper support then you need to cut back on your desired units.

And remember that Mephy is not an IC, so he can either hide behind a squad/transport or be in a transport by himself (note that he can be in a stormraven with a dreadnaught) but he can never be in a squad.

jbsnv wrote:

wpago wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:If you do want a character in you list, take at look at my list below,

Mephiston - 250

Sang.Guard Jp 125
Assualt Terminators 3 x LC 2 x TH 210

Assualt Marines Melta.Melta.Powerfist 235
Assualt Marines Melta.Melta.Powerfist 235
Assualt Marines Flamer.Flamer.Lighting claw 215
Scouts, Snipers, Camo cloaks, Missile Launcher 100

Devastators - 4 x Missile Launchers 130
1500

Chesh wrote:Drop the sanguinary guard and dev squad, then stick the termies in a land raider crusader and that actually doesn't look half bad.

Footslogging termies generally don't perform well at all. They get shot to hell in a turn, then don't have the numbers to really do much once they get into CC. Also, without the frag launchers on the LRC, all your opponent has to do is get you to assault into cover, and it's pretty much over for that 210 point investment.

Sorry typo, i've edited it now, the guard are 2 priests. I wish you could field Sang Guard at 125 points. But as a 200 point base sadly not. Foot slogging termies can work at a lower points level like this, you just have to be clever with them.

like the idea but 1 smaaaaaaal problum NO PRIEST!!

units to keep is the libby priest assult squad and storm raven prefer to load it with a dred and some sort of infantry probably dc termies or mephiston