Palindrome wrote:She isn't partifcuallry resolute about reclaiming the Iron Throne, it was always her brothers obsession and the fact that she and the ex slaves who are now the majority of her subjects are in a rather precarious position means that she has other things on her mind.

I wouldn't be suprised if she even sets foot upon Westeros by the conclusion of her story. There is also a massive complicating factor that I don't think that you have reached yet.

The Tagaryens were not well respected before they fell given that they had a tendency to madness and even though they had the right to rule Robert Baratheon was seen as a hero and he had sufficent military and political support to make his position solid, at least for a while. This is why Daenerys was forced to flee. There are also lots of complicating factors, some of which are only revealed in later books.

mattyrm wrote:Browsing some stuff on the internet about this I found something really interesting..

Spoiler:

Some guy thinking Tyrion is the bastard off-spring of a Targaryen as well, with it being mentioned that one of his eyes is almost purple, and some guy found this link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple#See_also

Maybe thats a clue?

Martin might have called him Tyrion after a purple which is alluded to as being the color of some of their eyes?

Somewhat elaborate, but I liked it anyway!

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:[Stannis Beratheon-stole her family seat at Dragonstone and made her go into exile

Spoiler:

Good luck getting to him if she ever gets to westeros

The Mountain-beat her brother Rhaegars wifes son against a wall
Joffery- currently sitting on the Iron Throne as Roberts 'son'

er]

Hazardous Harry wrote:

dogma wrote:

Spoiler:

The choice is between fulfilling the dying wish of his sister, and humiliating his wife. A difficult choice, but clearly one he was fine with making in either case as he didn't have to acknowledge Jon even if the boy happened to be his bastard.

As for why he encouraged Jon to join the Watch, it quite simple. Ned knew (or feared sufficently) that Robert would have had him killed if it was discovered Jon was actually a Targaryen, much as Robert wanted to have Dany killed. A powerful name isn't much good if its effectively a death sentence.

Spoiler:

He acknowledged his illegitimate son because it was 'the right thing to do'. Would lying to everyone, even his wife, be considered by Stark as the 'right thing to do'. We are talking about the morally uncomprising Ned Stark here.

Totalwar1402 wrote:Just finished the third book and I think I've changed my mind about Stannis. He might be using evil sorcery but he seems an okay King for all his faults; a bit like his brothers Renly and Robert.

Compared to some of the others...

Spoiler:

I really shouldn't have done it, but I was on the wiki on a character bio for Theon Greyjoy and it mentioned something called the Red Wedding. Curious I clicked the link. Now I knew the Frey were going to turn, but I thought they would just close the gates as he passed through to fight the Greyjoys. Not massacre Robb, Catalyn and all 3500 of his loyal bannerman.

Then you have the Boltons who have been set up in the last two books I've read to be the biggest jerks in Westeros, who are the very definition of robber barons and have turned looting/ransoming into an industry. They also betrayed the Starks at Winterfell whilst they were trying to get Theon. Actually, they're more like something out of the Thrity Years War than anything the medieval era produced.

Since I'am assuming the Freys will try to make themselves King of the Riverlands and the Boltons Kings of the North I really do hope Daenyrs gives them their justice at the series end. I mean I don't think she would want people like that helping her who have murdered children and isn't predisposed to like traitors.

Also, do you think it would be ironic if things are so bad in Westeros, with most of the Noble houses in chaos and robber barons scouring the land that the smallfolk actually do start praying for the Targarians return n sowing dragon banners? I mean they seem to have been repeatedly n insistingly saying thats not going to happen, but that sort of hints to me that its more likely to happen; especially once it becomes common knowledge that she has three dragons and a fair chunk of the East behind her. If you know somebody, whose basically Aegon the Conqueror reborn, can instantly end the war at a stroke thats going to be quite a hard thing not to see in a positive light. That or fear I suppose, another claiment wouldn't be good since it means more war and so far the other books have made clear that they have suffered more than anyone in this conflict.

I actually don't know how the other houses would react. GRR Martin doesn't put anywhere near as much awe (think the Emperor n Primarchs) as there is in 40k at the magical or the Divine and I suppose with history repeating itself they might think they can beat Daenyrs in battle. If her dragons are small enough they could even be justified in that. Some like Tywin Lannister have to fight because of his role in Roberts rebellion. Has GRR Martin said that the 6th book is going to have Danny reach Westeros? Because if its not the next and he only plans seven then that leads me to assume that Danny over-runs Westeros quite quickly if there is to be this battle against the Others.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:

dogma wrote:

Spoiler:

The choice is between fulfilling the dying wish of his sister, and humiliating his wife. A difficult choice, but clearly one he was fine with making in either case as he didn't have to acknowledge Jon even if the boy happened to be his bastard.

As for why he encouraged Jon to join the Watch, it quite simple. Ned knew (or feared sufficently) that Robert would have had him killed if it was discovered Jon was actually a Targaryen, much as Robert wanted to have Dany killed. A powerful name isn't much good if its effectively a death sentence.

Spoiler:

He acknowledged his illegitimate son because it was 'the right thing to do'. Would lying to everyone, even his wife, be considered by Stark as the 'right thing to do'. We are talking about the morally uncomprising Ned Stark here.

Spoiler:

The morally uncompromisng Ned Stark probably wouldn't father a bastard either, so it's all up in the air

Spoiler:

To be fair, Ned was just married and then rode off to war. I can see how he might have had a small lapse and slept with another woman, especially considering how it was likely he could very well die at any moment during the fighting. Boys will be boys!
Besides, in book 1 you get the impression that Robert knew the girl Ned slept with, he simply couldn't remember her name and Ned refused to really speak about it.

The other thing that doesn't really fit, Rhaegar was 'the last true dragon', implying he had dragon's blood. We know Jon didn't inherit that aspect *if* he's Rhaegar/Lyana's son and instead he's a pretty good warg.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Spoiler:

To be fair, Ned was just married and then rode off to war. I can see how he might have had a small lapse and slept with another woman, especially considering how it was likely he could very well die at any moment during the fighting. Boys will be boys!
Besides, in book 1 you get the impression that Robert knew the girl Ned slept with, he simply couldn't remember her name and Ned refused to really speak about it.

The other thing that doesn't really fit, Rhaegar was 'the last true dragon', implying he had dragon's blood. We know Jon didn't inherit that aspect *if* he's Rhaegar/Lyana's son and instead he's a pretty good warg.

Spoiler:

Well Jon hasn't been shoved in a fire yet so we can't test that part yet, but it will be interesting to see him interact with the dragons when they come to Westeros.

And Ned had too much honour to father a bastard. If he was willing to confront Cersei he wouldn't instantly renege on his very recent marriage.

Spoiler:

Jon burned his hand in the first book when he threw the lamp at the wight that was trying to kill the Old Bear - proving he's no true dragon!
With everything going on and Westeros going strait to hell, you get the impression that only a trueborn dragon is ment to retake the throne and restore peace to the Seven Kingdoms.


Ned could have fathered a bastard, especially as he was never ment to wed Cat who had been promised originally to his older brother Brandan. Ned got Cat & Winterfell by virtue of his father & older brother being murdered. He grew real feelings for Cat after the war was done and he'd come back to Winterfell.
Keep in mind too, his sense of honour would also have led him to basically own upto & admit any transgression he'd made, basically taking responsibility for his actions and trying to seek forgiveness.

He confronts Cersi because her children aren't just bastards, they're a product of incest which is pretty much the #1 crime in Westeros. (at least since the fall of the Targaryen dynasty, and its also said to be an affront/insault to the Gods!)

Hazardous Harry wrote:Yes, though it does seem that immunity to fire is something that her ancestors shared with her. What has changed that lead to further generations being deemed unworthy until Daenyrs is anyone's guess, though the death of dragons might have something to do with it.

I'm not entirely certain R'hollor is the good guy here (if there's anything demonstrated in GoT it's that there probably isn't a 'good' side in any case).

Spoiler:

Another priest of R'hollor appears in the latest book, and it seems they certainly want Daenyrs to succeed. But few people tend to help her for any reason other than their own self-interest, so I wonder their ulterior motive is. Why promote both Stannis and Daenyrs as the rightful heirs?

Tibbsy wrote:So many spoiler tags!

Spoiler:

One thing I found in Melisandre's POV is that at one point, she was praying for a glimpse of Azor Ahai (Who she believes is Stannis) and kept seeing Jon Snow in the flames...

I'm only about half-way through the last book though, so I'm not sure if this is a hint towards anything...

sebster wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:That is sort of simplifying it, Queen Elizabeth was adamant about ensuring England would remain a Protestant nation. That might have been her lasting legacy, certainly it's outlasted the dynasty of James.

Well yeah it's simplifying things, thought it'd be a bit much to write a 15,000 word essay on Elizabeth just to make a comparison to a fantasy book series.

I don't know how you think her desire to keep England a protestant nation changes anything I said. Point is despite having no children, Elizabeth showed plenty of resolve to maintain her power, because there are plenty of reasons to want the throne other than to leave it to your children (and wanting England to be a protestant nation is one such example).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grakmar wrote:The egg scene was TV show only.

It's been forever since I read the first book and now the books and series are all mixed up in my head, so can anyone me... when Viserys is killed by Drogo with molten gold, Daenyrs in the series gives a line that no true Targaryen would die by fire, or something to that effect. I kind of remember it being the book, it's definitely in the series, but now with what people are saying here I'm left wondering if that line was only in the series?

Grakmar wrote:

Spoiler:

Glass candles burning is magic coming back.

The pale mare is the disease that decimates Meereen.

Kraken and dark flame (they're listed together) is almost certainly Victarion Greyjoy and Moqorro.

Sun's son is definitely Quentyn.

The only things unclear are the Lion, the Griffin, and the Mummer's Dragon.

The Lion probably refers to a Lannister, but it's not clear which. The Griffin is most likely Jon Connington.

The Mummer's Dragon most likely refers to a fake Targaryen, which is most likely "Aegon", but could also be Jon Snow or Tyrion.

Totalwar1402 wrote:So who can she trust and might join her?

Spoiler:

I think Petyr Baelish might bring the Vale into the fight. He is the lesser evil to the Boltons and Freys who will always go with the sure winner; they'd abandon Lannister along with the Tyrells. He would also scheme against Varys so backing the other Targarian would make sense. The Lannisters also denied what was promised him at Harrenhal.

Jamie Lannister. If Cersei n her children die he could use his brother Tyrion to ask a Royal Pardon. Granted, he is top of the Scrolls of Vengence but still he seems to be getting more sympathetic as a character and if Varys Aegon puppet wants him and his family dead. Its a big maybe I suppose.

I really like Jaime's character developmental as he becomes a proper character instead of the whole 1 dimensional character from books 1&2 and actually seems like a genuinely kind person.

Tibbsy wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Spoiler:

Catelyn Stark is still half-alive thanks to the sacrifice of Beric Dondarion.
the hound is dead I think and somebody has appropriated his armour.

Spoiler:

I forgot about Catelyn You are right there...

It was Rorge who stole the Hound's helmet, then Brienne killed him, and it was taken by one of Thoros' band (I forget the name of the individual)

d-usa wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:ok slightly off topic, tonights show really bugged me for:

Spoiler:

WTF, why did they have Cat release the king slayer before she found out her boys were deadish. It really cheapens the motives for her releasing him. Would it have been to much trouble to have her receive word that theon had killed her boys? well kind of

Spoiler:

Its because its a much more dramatic cliffhanger to have ended that episode when you see the kids bodies. I suppose they should have released Jamie next episode but they were probably pushed for time.

They have two more episodes.

Spoiler:

My guess is that the next episode will focus the majority of the action on the siege of Kings Landing and the battle involved in that. From the previews it looks like that episode probably ate up the majority of the budged as well

The last episode will most likely focus on Danny getting her dragons back.

With those being the main points of the next two episodes they can spend a little time building the dynamic between Jamie and Brien, the dynamic between Rob and his new lady, John Snow and the wildlings, and the Stark boys in the dungeon.

My prediction for cliff hangers will be:

-Tyrion getting lost in battle. (I think him killing his dad would be a better cliffhanger, but I don't think the time is there to develop that plot)
-Danny being reunited with her dragons.
-John Snow making his kill.
-The Others attacking the Night's Watch.
-At least a confrontation at Winterfell, although I don't think it will be burned this season.

Experiment 626 wrote:

d-usa wrote:

Spoiler:

My guess is that the next episode will focus the majority of the action on the siege of Kings Landing and the battle involved in that. From the previews it looks like that episode probably ate up the majority of the budged as well

The last episode will most likely focus on Danny getting her dragons back.

With those being the main points of the next two episodes they can spend a little time building the dynamic between Jamie and Brien, the dynamic between Rob and his new lady, John Snow and the wildlings, and the Stark boys in the dungeon.

My prediction for cliff hangers will be:

-Tyrion getting lost in battle. (I think him killing his dad would be a better cliffhanger, but I don't think the time is there to develop that plot)
-Danny being reunited with her dragons.
-John Snow making his kill.
-The Others attacking the Night's Watch.
-At least a confrontation at Winterfell, although I don't think it will be burned this season.

Spoiler:

Next episode is pretty much the entirety of the Blackwater campaign. My bet is they leave it off with Ser Mandon taking aim at Tyrion's head!

The season ender, "Valar Morgulis", I think will incorperate;
a) Dany's journy through the House of the Undying & Drogon going ape nuts!
b) Snow vs Half-Hand and his 'betrayal' of the Watch
c) Arya recieving the iron coin from Jaquen Hagar and learning of the words she'll need later on 'Valar Morgulis' (kinda a givaway I think due to the episode's title! )
d) Winterfell being attacked by the Bastard of Bolten, maybe even going so far as having that sniviling little coward Theon being dragged before the Bastard of Bolten!
e) The final scene being the confrontation between Chet & Samwell and then hearing the three blasts of the horn signifying an attack by 'The Others'.

At least, that's my personal prediction!

On another note; (don't click this unless you really want a huge spoiler!!!)

Spoiler:

Season 3 I bet will end with Joffry's death and Cersi demanding Tyrion be arrested!

Season 4 will end with the 'Red Wedding'

Tibbsy wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Spoiler:

Started reading aDoD again and a though crossed my mind........


Could Coldhands be Benjin Stark?

Discuss

Spoiler:

I always thought it might have been whilst I was reading it, I think it's hinted at.. But really, Bran would have recognised him wouldn't he? Or did he keep his face covered, I can't remember...