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Hello all, I'm making a semi competitive 2k Tyranid list, themed on what would be the first stages of an assault by Tyranid against a planet. Therefore the list is building towards copious amounts of winged units and some mycetic spores. So far the only things that start with their feet on the ground are the tervigons and a few genestealers.

What the list is in lack of (especially considering the mech metagame at my FLGS) is good anti-tank. I think I'd like to avoid the Tyrannofex. I may convert a Harpy. But really, I need either Hive Guard or Zoanthropes. Should I go with the very solid 6 Hive Guard? Or would it also be competitive to go with 6 Zoanthropes in Mycetic Spores, which fits with my fluff nicely?

Thanks for any advice

The Zoanthropes suffer from having to take a psychic test, then roll to hit & pen. They also can have their shooting shut down by Hoods.

The Hive Guard don't, so are more reliable. They cost less, too.

Besides, in a spore, there's always a chance they won't come in until too late and the tanks/transports have done their damage.

Zoeys are the most reliable AV13+ anti-tank.

That's not saying much, however.
You have about a 9% chance to fail the psychic test. Then you have to contend with the psychic defense of the target army - which can be brutal.
Then you have a 33% chance to miss completely.
Then you have a (assuming AV12 or higher) ~16% chance to fail to pen/glance, and ~16% chance to only glance (which still gives a 16% chance to wreck the vehicle)


6 Zoeys in Spores is fine as long as you realize that high AV is already going to be tough. Sorry for the longish rant about relying on a psychic power for AT.

I have taken a liking to running a mixed bag of Zoey and HG, as they complement each other well.

All in all i think the tougher hive guard are a good choice as they dish out a lot of pain and can soak up a lot as well. Furthermore IMO i think hive guard look very very badass

Yes, looking badass is key.

Zoeys aren't that bad, the 3+ invul is fantastic. Cover, who needs cover? They have synapse as well and so SITW. Mine do let me down at least once a game though. You need to expect it.

Hive guard are reliable, but only against armour 12 or less. Armour 13/14 it's zoeys or CC I'm afraid. They are durable but in a different way to zoeys - T6 but no invul.

If only hive guard were HS I could field an army of both. That would be win ...

Go with 6 HG in 2 units + some Ygmarl or 3HG/Ygmarl/Zoes or DoM.

It depends what you're facing. If you're facing a lot of AV13-14, Hive Guard simply aren't going to cut it. They're great at transport hunting, but you can't base your entire anti tank around them.

AV13-14 is the domain of CC monstrous creatures (which, being mostly strength 6, still can have trouble with AV14, and the sole strength 9 monstrous creature is too slow to catch tanks) and Zoanthropes. Both have drawbacks - if you melee a land raider, its contents are free to counter charge the monstrous creature. If they're the ever present hammernators, you'll lose the MC. If you rely on Zoanthropes, they might have to pod it (and not make it in time), they have more hoops to jump through than regular ranged anti tank and can be shut down by psychic defense (which, admittedly, isn't always going to be there, but is common enough to cause concern).

Pick your poison for anti AV13-14. Tyranids have trouble with it however you try to tackle it.

I commend you, good sir! For hitting the same idea that I did;

Instant 'Nid chopped salad with a side of fear! A deepstriking/flanking Nid army is just
awesome!

Slightly off topic, but you do mention Harpies for AT duty.

To be blunt, for the theme you're running they are a perfect fit.

With TL-HVC, they can pop heavy armor (somewhat relibly) and splatter most infrantry;

They're winged so catching armor is no biggy, and hurting said bread box is easy as well
since the Harpy is a MC.

And with Wings, the badboy can deepstrike on top of it all!

Couple other advantages; The secondary dakka (Cluster spines/ Stinger Salvo) and the
extra nifty (if a trifle inpractical) Spore Mine Cysts. Additionally the bonus of Sonic Screech
for that extra push into cover and against higher Intitive units is an awesome way to ensure
the Genestealers get to do thier thing with a little backup.

The faults of Harpies?

They're slightly complex as unlike any other MC besides a Flyrant, it has a major conflict of
duties-Dakka or MC-smash! Once you get yourself around that and the timing of when to
switch gears, it's a matter of judging Synapse. It's not too rough since they still get to shoot,
just probably not at the unit you want them too! And the most obvious fault, is they are suprizenly
fragile for a MC, being not quite as tough or as tenacious as the others.

I'd recomend at least two from experience and only consider regen if you have spare points. Any
thing a'side from a battle cannon that is hitting these guys, they can endure long enough to make a
difference for you.


As for getting hit with the juicy innards of transports after you pop it? If you have the numbers present,
bubblewrap the transport BEFORE popping it. It is just absolutley hirlarious to watch your opponent's
face as they realise thier super-assaulty Termies don't even get to come out and play! It should be
super easy with your army D/S down; really just a matter of timing!

You could go half and half?
This way you get the reliable shootiness of the guards and the anti tank badassness of the zoeys.

That's how Zoanthropes are generally run, as a deep strike squad for taking down heavier stuff while Hive Guard wreck transports.

I honestly find Hive Guard tough to balance in my slections. Too many and, while you will reduce the enemies transports to smoulders quickly, once they're done, you end up with 200-300 points not doing much after turn 2. Once they're reduced to hunting infantry, they have too few shots to hurt GEQs and too low AP to hurt MEQs.

This is why I prefer to mix in Zoanthropes - while they have psychic defense problems and need a psychic test to shoot, their warp blast is good against MEQ's and they provide synapse. They have a bit more use after that last transport goes down.

My opponent runs a mech heavy IG list (8 or 9 vehicles). I have been pleased with the Tyrannofex; though it doesn't always hit, it is very tough and soaks up a LOT of return fire (especially if given feel no pain). It is the best ranged weapon in the tyranid army and doesn't have to move up unless it wants to. It is big enough to block for other monstrous creatures, and will wreck vehicles in CC as well. Use it to pop things with las cannons from a distance early on, and all your monstrous creatures' survivability goes up enormously.

I use a lot of pods to deploy devourer guants behind enemy lines. A pod is very capable of breaking a transport open itself if it gets rear armor, and is a threat even to side armor. I give them (overpriced) venom cannons as well so the enemy can't just move away from them to feel safe; a venom cannon from the rear is a threat to many vehicles and troops, so your opponent can burn shots on a non-scoring unit. The guants can even hurt rear-armor - not high probability, but with the number of shots devours give, it becomes much more probable for some glances that will keep the enemy from shooting. They are death to most infantry.

I use 3 hiveguard, doom, and ymgarls + regular flanking genestealers to round out tank hunting. Hive guard are tough to use in some deployments, because they only have a 24" range and they still can be instakilled by strength 10. The stealers keep vehicles away from flanks, and the ymgarl keep them away from area terrain. The tyrannofex is a big threat and the opponent will have to move up to engage it properly. Then you have your other MC's coming at him from the other directions.

Basically, screw running headlong into death, hoping your meatshield lasts. Make your opponent feel hunted all the time, and they will make mistakes. Don't let them feel safe anywhere, and keep their vehicles moving to reduce their shootiness.

I've got a couple of video battle reports using the forces above, and they are effective. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypfy9FMrO_I&feature=plcp is the better looking one.

All that said, I am thinking of trying zoanthropes instead of HG; my opponent is threatening to repond with MORE ARMOR, and I'm going to need to still more ways of dealing with it.

Hive Guard are much better in my experience, although I like Zoanthropes as well. They are just far more unreliable, but cover a piece of the Tyranid arsenal that they can't get elsewhere (for cheap anyway).

Zoanthropes fit the fluff better.
Hive Guard are late creations in the planetary invasion scale.
Generally speaking.

The rest is above.

kirsanth wrote:Zoanthropes fit the fluff better.
Hive Guard are late creations in the planetary invasion scale.
Generally speaking.

This is another reason I try not to use them too much, as I'm more of a fluff thinker when I make a list. Hive Guard not only are created later in the invasion, they're made for one purpose - to defend capillary towers and digestion pools. They wouldn't be accompanying a Tyranid wave on the march. I guess they fit in objective games - you could very well have capillary towers as objectives. But generally speaking, they wouldn't be walking around with an attack wave. They're a purely static defensive organism.

Though this is tactics, so that doesn't really factor into if they're better than Zoanthropes, which, well, is as said above, purely situational based on what kind of army and armour you're facing.

2 groups of 3 hive guard. one group of 3 zoanthrope.

ruminator wrote:Yes, looking badass is key.

Zoeys aren't that bad, the 3+ invul is fantastic. Cover, who needs cover? They have synapse as well and so SITW. Mine do let me down at least once a game though. You need to expect it.

Hive guard are reliable, but only against armour 12 or less. Armour 13/14 it's zoeys or CC I'm afraid. They are durable but in a different way to zoeys - T6 but no invul.

If only hive guard were HS I could field an army of both. That would be win ...

Tfexes work rather well, though they mainly find use for want of any other kind of LRAT, though I suppose if you're really desperate HVC Harpies could work kind of well in a pinch. Ultimately the Tyranids are always going to be at a disadvantage against Vehicle spam since the simple act of a vehicle moving makes it much harder for us to pop open vehicles in CC and all of our best anti-tank units are shoved into the same slots and compete with other potentially useful units.

If you want a good anti-tank force, two triple broods of hive guards, one triple brood of zoans in a spore, alternating numbers of Tfexes or Trygons and lots of genestealers have worked out rather well for me. If I'm facing a lot of tanks, I'll add some HVC harpies and HVC shell tyrants for just a bit of added punch. And yet, even with the most optimized of AT builds, Triple Land Raiders or Tank Guard will still ruin your day.