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First off, please don't turn this post into yet another flame attack on fine (fail) cast There are already plenty of those knocking around, I don't feel we need another.

I have a problem with the upper mangler squig whereby it keeps sagging on its standing leg. Unfortunately the shape of the leg makes pinning it for strength hard to do, so I'm going to have to cut & insert a clear plastic stem from a flying base to try to cure the problem.

I remember the first stories of models collapsing when left inside cars during the day, but thought that was really only the first few batches when finecast came out. For non-UK residents, the temp in the UK has been a bit down for the time of year (mostly low teens Celsius), so I'm really aghast that this has happened.

However, my questions is, have people had any real success in taking models back for replacement for this problem ?
What has GW's stance been - supportive or couldn't care less ?

Apparently with the mangler it's the weight, not heat that's causing the problem. It appears that finecast is too soft to hold any real weight without sagging

Indeed, and this would be an issue with 'normal' PU resin too. A design flaw, rather than a Finecast flaw.

The fix is a fairly advanced technique I and a few others call 'coring'. Effectively it's like pinning, but cutting the model up for the purpose of putting very long reinforcing rods into it.

You'll need to build up the base a little to take a long pin (milliput or greenstuff should do). Then you need to cut the leg so a long pin can be inserted RIGHT through to the base from the body. You will need to bend the pin, and you'll need to ensure it's securely anchored inside the model. You'll probably need to resculpt the 'knee' where the pin bends. Not really something that can be done well post-build unfortunately.

Hmm maybe I'm lucky, but I haven't had any issues with mine at all. Do you have the 2nd mangler glued on top of the first like it's supposed to be? I've heard a lot of folks have been just putting 1 on a base and getting 2 models out of the kit, so if you can separate them and try that maybe it will help with the weight issue. Been meaning to do that with mine too.

Necros wrote:Hmm maybe I'm lucky, but I haven't had any issues with mine at all. Do you have the 2nd mangler glued on top of the first like it's supposed to be? I've heard a lot of folks have been just putting 1 on a base and getting 2 models out of the kit, so if you can separate them and try that maybe it will help with the weight issue. Been meaning to do that with mine too.

I've had them separate from day 1 so unfortunately that won't help

A word of warning for anyone planning of using single decker manglers at GW events - they don't like it (yes, really [heavy sarcasm]). I had the taken the twins to the TOS tournie earlier in the year, only to have one of the judges pull me to one side & have a polite, quiet word with me - net result, a warning not to taken them again or risk having to play without them.

@Winterdyne - I have recently considered this, but as you say, its not something I really want to have to do with finished, painted models. I can understand it being a design flaw, but have never seen mention of it here or any of the other forums that I frequent.

Even my Zoanthropes bent where their tail met the little capillary tower on the base. It's a resin thing, as others have said.

Your best bet is probably going to be supporting the model somehow. I suggest a mushroom / toadstool sculpted to fit just under the opposite corner of the model to the leg (once you warm it up to correct the sag - a hair dryer will do this well). Pin through that to support the model and prevent the sag. You should then have minimal repairs to do.

The banner for my 25th anniversary model bent to hell when I set it in the base. I have straightened it, but I'll now have to reinforce the damn thing before I'll paint it and put it back in the base. Not sure how I'm going to do that without it looking like crap.

Get a long, thin drill bit and drill right the way up into the pole, as far as you can. If this still doesn't work (for example the banner is at an extreme angle), you will need to carve away the pole in its entirity up to the crossbar and replace it with a brass or styrene rod.

You have to drill that sucker pretty dead-on to avoid popping through through the side, though. I'm not sure I can do that.

Replacing it might be my best bet.

Yeah, it's not super easy, but if you're slow and careful it's doable. The trick to doing that sort of job is to turn the part 90(ish) degrees now and then as you work to ensure your drill is going down the right line.

FordPrefect wrote:

Necros wrote:Hmm maybe I'm lucky, but I haven't had any issues with mine at all. Do you have the 2nd mangler glued on top of the first like it's supposed to be? I've heard a lot of folks have been just putting 1 on a base and getting 2 models out of the kit, so if you can separate them and try that maybe it will help with the weight issue. Been meaning to do that with mine too.

I've had them separate from day 1 so unfortunately that won't help

A word of warning for anyone planning of using single decker manglers at GW events - they don't like it (yes, really [heavy sarcasm]). I had the taken the twins to the TOS tournie earlier in the year, only to have one of the judges pull me to one side & have a polite, quiet word with me - net result, a warning not to taken them again or risk having to play without them.

@Winterdyne - I have recently considered this, but as you say, its not something I really want to have to do with finished, painted models. I can understand it being a design flaw, but have never seen mention of it here or any of the other forums that I frequent.

But were they upset that you were avoiding the LOS issues from shrinking the size of the model, or were they mad that you avoided the cost of buying a second? If you model it on top of dead bodies, rocks, anything to make it proper height, they have no reason to complain. If they still complain that you're trying to get around the purchase issue...then the judge in question is being a total prick. GW is supposed to support conversions (it's in their legal page), and he can't kick you out for a conversion with GW material, regardless of you buying only one box of Manglers.

kronk wrote:The banner for my 25th anniversary model bent to hell when I set it in the base. I have straightened it, but I'll now have to reinforce the damn thing before I'll paint it and put it back in the base. Not sure how I'm going to do that without it looking like crap.

Banner poles are easy if they're not textured. Just find metal rod the same size and lenght, clip the ends off the hand, and drill through the hand, and clip the banner topper off the resin pole. Drill a hope into the topper so it'll sit on top of the new metal pole, slide it through the hand into the part of the base it sits in, and bingo, new banner pole that won't bend.

timetowaste85 wrote:But were they upset that you were avoiding the LOS issues from shrinking the size of the model, or were they mad that you avoided the cost of buying a second? If you model it on top of dead bodies, rocks, anything to make it proper height, they have no reason to complain. If they still complain that you're trying to get around the purchase issue...then the judge in question is being a total prick. GW is supposed to support conversions (it's in their legal page), and he can't kick you out for a conversion with GW material, regardless of you buying only one box of Manglers.

There was at least 1 other O&G player who had the same idea & they had modelled them to avoid any potential LOS issues (1 was on top of a stone pillar) - they had also received the same warning !

I can (sort of) accept GW's stance on the loss of 1 sale, but this issue of the model sagging has really pi55ed me off, so i'm unlikely be buying a 2nd However the practical upshot is that I'm unlikley to be taking O&G to any GW tournies in the near future (either that, or change my list by dropping the over powered, under pointed 2 mangler squigs )

Woah wait up a bit-fail-erm i mean fine-cast MELTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damn this means im gonna have to start heading to Dreammakers for my non-plastic models.

Where in the world are you getting "Finecast melts!" from this thread?

Resin, when left in an enclosed environment with heat can start to sag or become flexible.

master of ordinance wrote:Woah wait up a bit-fail-erm i mean fine-cast MELTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damn this means im gonna have to start heading to Dreammakers for my non-plastic models.

Yes, the resin used in Finecast miniatures will loose its solid properties when exposed to a heat source. i.e. it will melt, often times from such trivial things as being exposed to strong direct sunlight for a long period of time.

Kanluwen wrote:Where in the world are you getting "Finecast melts!" from this thread?

Resin, when left in an enclosed environment with heat can start to sag or become flexible.

And the experiments have also proven that finecast not only doesn't melt when in an oven, but the sagging rectifies itself and at very high tempatures reverts to mold memory shape. A model in an oven got all droopy at low tempatures then stiffened back up at higher temps. Most resins have a MOLD MEMORY which is why you need to cool it with pressure to keep the new shape.

How much do those finely detailed works of art cost again?

The mangler squig should be at the top of the list.

For that price, that thing should not only NOT sag, that thing needs to be jumping off the table and biting your face off.

SOMEONE who won't be named said they did a test by putting the early ones in the oven. They melted enough to let you know not to put them into the oven.


I'll go on and say that the models are improving, but not by leaps and bounds like they want you to believe.


Finecost is just that. expensive resin low quality figures at a high quality price.

Third and fourth order effects of the "Decision" of converting ALL of the figs to this medium are yet to be realized.


Short answer is to expect a few more price increases and store closings to comp the numbers of players leaving the game.

FordPrefect wrote:First off, please don't turn this post into yet another flame attack on fine (fail) cast There are already plenty of those knocking around, I don't feel we need another.

Ironic that this statement includes a flame for finecast in it

Grot 6 wrote: They melted enough to let you know not to put them into the oven.

Resin doesn't melt. It can't.

My Gandalf has been in a 250+ degree oven multiple times, never melted. The plastic bases melt... Finecast does not melt. Your model will not lose detail or shape due to high heat. It simply becomes bendable like all resin. I have actually bent Gandalf up and at high temps he returns to his original shape.

Melting makes people think it is going to be like leaving a wax sculpture in the sun. This is simply not true.

master of ordinance wrote:Woah wait up a bit-fail-erm i mean fine-cast [b]MELTS

I know it would be mind blowing if true, fortunate that neither white metal or plastic melt.

Plastic certainly melts. Or at least deforms at high temperatures.

I've got two predators that have succumbed to the heat.

Kanluwen wrote:Resin, when left in an enclosed environment with heat can start to sag or become flexible.

Which I would hope all people that buy resin models (I have enough FW toys to know this well enough), but my frustration is that the model hasn't been subjected to even moderate temp - 20º C max & yet it has still sagged.

I had corrected the fault by wedging an artillary dice underneath (remembering that my top mangler is on a base of its own), which subsequent kept its shape for a period. However, another bout of high teens ºC has it licking the floor again - LOL (NOT!)

I don't want to let my frustration spill over into out right anger, but it really is a poor show for a product with such a premium price tag.

FordPrefect wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Resin, when left in an enclosed environment with heat can start to sag or become flexible.

Which I would hope all people that buy resin models (I have enough FW toys to know this well enough), but my frustration is that the model hasn't been subjected to even moderate temp - 20º C max & yet it has still sagged.

I had corrected the fault by wedging an artillary dice underneath (remembering that my top mangler is on a base of its own), which subsequent kept its shape for a period. However, another bout of high teens ºC has it licking the floor again - LOL (NOT!)

I don't want to let my frustration spill over into out right anger, but it really is a poor show for a product with such a premium price tag.

Want to talk about a resin model with a premium price tag having those sorts of issues?

I have a Heirophant. My fiancee paid $350au for it.

I need to make a flying base for it, otherwise it has the same problem your mangler squigs are having, since while the front legs are fairly bulky, they're not enough to hold the torso weight up. Even in normal room temperature (this actually happened to one at my FLGS while it sat in the display cabinet of an air conditioned store), the front legs will sag until the torso is on the ground.

It's a resin issue, it doesn't need heat to happen if the weight is not being supported properly. My advice is simply don't leave them standing. Store them lying on their back of side in a figure case. If the only time they're on their feet is in a game, the issues becomes a non-issue.

@Loki - I understand what you are saying but the hierophant is a special case. Those legs are FAR too spindly to support the weight of the body. Even the model in a display cabinet at GW UK head office, Lenton, has the legs bending - its just a poor design.

The advice about storing it on its side is sound, but how many gamers either store their armies in display cases or foam trays when not in use - most ? The model should be able to stand under its own devices for normal temperatures - upto 30ºC

Then you need to core it. To be honest, this sort of thing should have been explained to you well before you bought a kit like that. :-( But GW don't really care about teaching folks stuff any more.

FordPrefect wrote:@Loki - I understand what you are saying but the hierophant is a special case. Those legs are FAR too spindly to support the weight of the body. Even the model in a display cabinet at GW UK head office, Lenton, has the legs bending - its just a poor design.

It's not a special case, since other resin models do it. Any large bit of resin being held up by thinner peices of resin will bend the thinner peices. Mangler squigs are large solid balls of resin on thin resin legs. The have the same design flaw as the Heirophant.

And the new FW gargantuan squig will also have EXACTLY the same issue. Luckily; it appears to have an easy cutting point at the knee, to the point where you could use a single bent rod to reinforce the whole leg from base to body. You'd have to resculpt almost the whole knee, but as it (the knee) is just effectively a blob with some creases anyway, should be simplicity itself.

kronk wrote:The banner for my 25th anniversary model bent to hell when I set it in the base. I have straightened it, but I'll now have to reinforce the damn thing before I'll paint it and put it back in the base. Not sure how I'm going to do that without it looking like crap.

Effectively it's like pinning, but cutting the model up for the purpose of putting very long reinforcing rods into it. You'll need to build up the base a little to take a long pin milliput or greenstuff should do.