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So I'm looking to get into Warmahordes, specifically with the LoE forces. I've only played a couple small games of Warmachine, so while I'm somewhat familiar with the rules, I am woefully unaware of unit synergies, especially in Hordes. I wanted to develop an all-infantry (if possible) force, perhaps only taking a few lesser beasts (Looking mainly at Harriers and Shredders here) if necessary. I'm hoping to make it shooting-heavy, with lots of archers, artillery, etc.

For warlocks, it seems like Kallus or Rhyas, or perhaps Epic Lylyth would work best.
Blighted Archers with officer and Ammo Porter are a must for me, and with a line of legionaries, possibly with Farilor, acting as the defensive speedbump.
Probably a unit of swordsmen with the Abbot and Champion if the points allow for it, and possibly Hex Hunters if you think they'd mesh well with the warlock or the rest of the army.
I'd definitely like to include a Scather and Spawning Vessel (Is there any advantage to taking multiple Spawning Vessels?), but I don't know if Striders and possibly their UA would be worth it to take.

Again, I'm not very familiar at all with unit synergies in Hordes, so any advice on what's a good or worthless combination is greatly appreciated.

If you want shooty, look into their cavalry. They're quite disgusting. I know they're on my list of stuff to get. Striders are also quite nice. If you want to shoot, definitely go with Lylyth.

You seem to have a good grip on what you want. I would definitely consider not going all infantry and lesser beasts though. There are a couple animus you'll want to look at on other beasts. For instance, Seraph can move your commander in for an assassination run.

I know that using larger beasts would be a better idea for most casters, which is why I'm heavily considering Kallas or Rhyas. If I decide to make an assassination run battleforce, I was thinking of taking Saeryn and several harriers, and popping her feat to let them zip over the defensive lines and tag the caster/warlock.

To be honest, I'm actually not that interested in their cavalry (The reindeer thing doesn't really do it for me). I was thinking if I was to take Lylyth, I should also take some Bolt Throwers, even though that kind-of breaks the small-models-only theme of the army.

Disclaimer: This is only my opinion and based on my experiences playing. Feel free to do as you wish and welcome to LoE~!

Infintry is not really LoE's forte. They rely heavily on their big beasties to do the heavy lifting and use their infintry as support pieces.

Honestly, you can play how you want, and if it works for you great, but I would not recommend infintry "ONLY".

Now thats not to say LOE infintry is crap or useless. Kallus, pThags, Lylyths, Bethayne and many others excell at using them in their lists, but still use their beasties.

The Archers & Scather Crew: They look good/useful on paper, but when you get them on the field you notice something. Their mobility blows. They need to stand still to get the extra shots, the artillary piece is slow. At the end of the day, you'll get one round (if you're lucky) of shooting before your guys are engaged and then systematically murdered. Striders and Raptors/Annyssa have mobility along with some killer abilities like Hunter with the UA for the striders (Never leave home without their UA) and Light cav are super fast, and can have a 5" reposition after they activate.

What does this mean? They can buy themselves at least 2 rounds of shooting in most situations before being tied up, and Raptors can shoot nearly all game with proper movement/placement.

If you want a shooting force that is also mobil and works well, try eLylyth. Bring along at least one Ravagore, try out the Striders+UA, Raptors, Annyssa, Deathstalkers and the Bolt thrower. When the Naga releases, bring one of those as well. She's quite amazing and will will do very well against a lot of match ups. Ask Ret players what they think of her lol.

Hm. If I were to go all small-based models for a LoE list, I'd probably take Kallus. Given that I can expect mass casualties, I would take the Spawning Vessel (aka Stew Pot) and use it to spit out lesser warbeasts over time to help mitigate the attrition. I would need Legionnaires as a speedbump, Swordsmen as my killing force, and Hex Hunters to deal with things like wraiths.

Instead of Archers, I would take Striders + UA and two Deathstalkers so I can skirmish and pick off key enemy support models.

All this leads to a lot of anti-infantry stuff but not a lot of answers for heavy armor. The Blackfrost Shard can help with that.

It sounds a bit odd, but I think that Forsaken and/or Shepherds would be needed. Since your only warbeasts are lessers, you can't really afford not to run red-hot every turn.

I was actually thinking of more of a static force, one that forces the enemy to come engage me rather than sallying out to meet them. It seems like the archers and the scather could shut down flanking lanes and force the enemy beatsticks to hit my line of legionaries (With their UA and Kallus if I take him), whittling them down and providing fuel for the Spawning Vessel.

If I have Kallus, I'll probably take a bunch of swordsmen to flank the enemy and force them to kill them off to hit the rest of my force (Which would result in wonderful things if I pop his feat), and if they don't engage them, I get another turn of shooting or charging them in melee. If I use Rhyas, I'm going to stock up on harriers and use her feat once they're close enough to zip over their main line and cause havoc, hopefully being able to target the enemy caster.

I realize the lack of mobility will hamper my ability to control objectives, but provided the scather and archers do their job, it seems like they could fairly well deny any attempts to flank short of flying huge beasts, and those I can hit with multiple archer CRAs.

If some sort of very specific narative game is your thing then it'll be great, if not it'll be terrible for you and your oppenent. You'll get steam rolled over and over, even against people that call themselves "casual players" and sniff at power listing, it's just that bad.

Can't suggest strongly enough that you proxy these things several games before spending the money.

I would love to run a forsaken or two, since they can be a nice target draw or a weaker flank denial. Heck, I could just camp her behind my line of legionaries, pumping her up on the vessel's harriers, and then use her shroud once the legionaries defensive wall has fallen.

Based on what you described, go with Kallus.

Legionnaires, Swordsmen with UA, and Blighted Ogrun with the Warchief to control your Berzerking.

Your feat and mass Unyielding make the Legionnaires an incredibly difficult screen to break through, Incited swordsmen can kill almost anything (especially with an extra die to hit) and Incited Ogrun can also kill almost anything.

Add a Carnivean or a Scythean, a Shredder, and a Spawning Vessel, and basically just mob forward. Striders or Cav or Deathstalkers are all good ranged support options, although Kallus doesn't really need them.

Beware heavy gunlines, though.

Oh, definitely for the proxies. I usually play for months before I purchase the actual units. Thanks for the warning though.

Do you think adding some Bolt Throwers in would be a good idea, since then I'd have some beasties to draw fury off of and widen my warlock choices a bit?

darkPrince010 wrote:Oh, definitely for the proxies. I usually play for months before I purchase the actual units. Thanks for the warning though.

Do you think adding some Bolt Throwers in would be a good idea, since then I'd have some beasties to draw fury off of and widen my warlock choices a bit?

Bolt Throwers aren't bad.

Ravagores are generally better although more expensive.

Maybe. I'm still focused on as much small stuff as possible, but I'd be alright with a couple Nephilim if the army required it. Trying to stay away from the non-soldier-"looking" beasties as much as possible, and trying to keep ogres, cavalry, and anything with large bases to a minimum (Excluding, of course, the scather and vessel)

If you run with Kallus (YAY! I love him) make sure to have a good ranged threat. IME he needs to put a lot of ranged pressure on the enemy forces in order to entice them to engage your Legos. Then they pop their mini feat within Unyeilding range and they'll be a tarpit like no one's business, especially if they are backed up with the Spawning Vessel.

Do not be fooled that they are good at killing things. They tend to hit like a wet noodle. Ignite will help in this regard if you don't have a better target for it (Beasts, Swordsmen, Ogrun, etc.)

Dark Guidance is going to be your bread and butter spell, which means he needs some help with fury. When it releases, get the Succubus, and run her with him. It'll give him a free tenacity every turn along with upkeeping Ignite for free. Means he can cast DG and camp 2 fury, meaning he can be a little more involved with less worry of assassination.

Are swordsmen appreciably better at killing in melee than legionaries, or are they about the same killy potential with a smaller price tag?

Legos are base P&S10 (I think, could be 12 but I really think 10), which means even with doubled up CMAs on the charge they hit for about a pow 21 total. Enough to kill any infantry, but not enough to really threaten a heavy. Swordsmen with Incite are P&S13 with weaponmaster, so on the charge pow 27 on average. That will wipe out all but the absolutely tankiest of models.

Nice. Plus I take it that they're fragile enough to be worth keeping close to a Vessel when they do their slicing and dicing?

Also, if I have a bunch of harriers, would it be worth it to include a Nyss Sorceror/Hellion, for ease of harrier manipulation without forcing? (Plus the Blight Storm seems simply brutal, even if it is yet another anti-infantry option in a heavily anti-infantry army)

If you're going the Flying Circus route, try out the Angels. They look sweet, and Armor Piercing is no joke.

Ask any Medium+ casters what they think of Angels hehe.

Sorc&Hellion is great for our winged beasts. They are also magical, so they would get a boost under Bethayne's feat turn

BTW, Bethayne lets her beasts cast her animi for free during the feat turn, so Harriers get True Strike for free lol. There was a list made of all Harriers with her and Sorc&Hellions. 10" Flying charge for free with True strike up lol.

NOTE: If spamming lessers is what you're into, you might look into eThagrosh and shredders. His feat + Rabid shredders is a killer combo. Everyone will see it coming unfortunately, but it is a fun list.

All right, here is my suggestion.

Start off at 15 points. IIRC, Kallus has 6 Beast points.

Start with:

------
Kallus

Nephilim Bolt Thrower (6)

Nephilim Soldier (5)

Nephilim Protector (5)

Shredder (2)

1x Forsaken (2) OR 2x Shepherd

Spell Martyr (1)

-----
If Kallus has only 5 Beast points, drop the Spell Martyr.

At this point level, you learn to handle your beasts and how to play. You focus on using your Bolt Thrower to smack things down while you use your Soldier and Protector to beat up on the enemy. You learn to use the Forsaken / Shepherds to do Fury management. You learn the rules at this point level.

Your feat is useless. Don't bother with it here.

When you feel comfortable, add:

------
Max Blighted Nyss Swordsmen OR Min Swordsmen + UA (8)

Min Spawning Vessel

A box of Incubi for your Feat (Free)

Some more Shredders and stuff for your spawning vessel to spit out. (Free)
-----

This will take you to 25 points. Here you learn how to use your infantry, how to set up charge lanes, and how to position the Spawning Vessel to get the most use out of it. Your choice of swordsmen configuration should depend on what you can find at your FLGS.

After this, you:

-----
Either Max out the Swordsmen or add the UA (3)

Add the Black Frost Shard (5)

Max out the Spawning Vessel (1)

Add a Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew (1)

-----
At 35 points, focus on learning to use the BFS to set up debuffs and combos. Use the Swamp Gobbers to shroud Kallus and your infantry in cloud effects to help protect them from shootan.

Finally, to get up to 50 points:

-----
Add the Hex Hunters and Bayal (11)

Add a Forsaken and/or a variety of Spell Martyrs, Artillery, or Lessers to taste.

Maybe another box of Incubi.
-----
I can't guarantee it'll be a good list, but it should match what you want to get out of it.

Downside to this power progression is that you'll be short on shooting, and you'll have to rely on speed, your Feat, and terrain to move up the board into gunlines. Mass AOEs are going to wreck you. No getting around that except through positioning.

You could add Archers or Striders or Artillery at lower points, but I find that especially at point totals lower than 50, a focused and precise list that does one thing very well is better than trying to do a lot of things badly.

Anyone got any suggestions for this power progression?

Thanks a ton for the suggestion! Now, do you think it might be worth it to get the Swamp Gobbers Bellows instead of the spell martyr to get the stealth buff to try and prevent against AOE?

darkPrince010 wrote:Thanks a ton for the suggestion! Now, do you think it might be worth it to get the Swamp Gobbers Bellows instead of the spell martyr to get the stealth buff to try and prevent against AOE?

The Bellows crew doesn't give Stealth, it makes a Cloud Effect which gives Concealment, which is a +2 to DEF vs shooting. I guess you could swap them out. Personally I'd rather have a Spell Martyr and use it to deliver Kallus' nuke from safety. Your choice.

Ah. The martyr probably is a better choice then, especially since the Forsaken will help Kallus get the Fury without causing any of the beasts to frenzy.