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+++ Deathwing (2000pts) +++
+++ 2000pt Dark Angels 4th Edition (2007) Roster (Standard) +++

Selections:

+ HQ + (130pts)

* Belial - Master of The Deathwing (130pts)
Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield

+ Elites + (175pts)

* Dreadnought (175pts)
Missile Launcher, Twin Linked Lascannon, Venerable

+ Troops + (995pts)

* Deathwing Command Squad (Troops) (290pts)
Cyclone Missile Launcher, Deathwing Apothecary, Deathwing Company Standard Bearer, 4x Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
* Sergeant
Pair of Lightning Claws

* Deathwing Terminator Squad (Troops) (235pts)
Cyclone Missile Launcher, 4x Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
* Sergeant
Pair of Lightning Claws

* Deathwing Terminator Squad (Troops) (235pts)
Cyclone Missile Launcher, 4x Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
* Sergeant
Pair of Lightning Claws

* Deathwing Terminator Squad (Troops) (235pts)
Cyclone Missile Launcher, 4x Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
* Sergeant
Pair of Lightning Claws

+ Fast Attack + (430pts)

* Ravenwing Attack Squadron (215pts)
* 2 Ravenwing Bikers
2x Meltagun
* Ravenwing Attack Bike
Multi Melta
* Veteran Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Power Fist

* Ravenwing Attack Squadron (215pts)
* 2 Ravenwing Bikers
2x Meltagun
* Ravenwing Attack Bike
Multi Melta
* Veteran Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Power Fist

+ Heavy Support + (270pts)

* Land Raider Crusader (270pts)
Extra Armour , Pintle Storm Bolter

Let me know what you guys think. Belial and the Command Squad ride in the crusader. Bikes focus on tank busting and taking care of deathstar type units. C/C as usual!

Ok, I do have a question for you first. Do you plan on Deep striking your terminators?

I personally have found that Meltas on bikes are kind of a bad thing. I understand what you are trying to do with them. I am just not sure if its the greatest idea. I personally like Plasmaguns on my bikes. The attack bike can be nice but since they run by them selves they are an easy KP for the enemy. I don't think they are worth it anymore.

I think you could get more support from some typhoon speeders. They are super cheap for us. Might as well use them.

Why not give your Term Sgt a TH/SS and give a regular term a LC. Will help with wound allocation. I personaly like more then one LC. TH/SS is nice but I like the extra attacks that the LC provide. I useally run 2 TH/SS and 3 LC's The CML goes on a LC and one of the TH/SS are on the Sgt. It gives me 4 different models effectively for allocation.

Have you thought about taking the Master of the Ravenwing too? I useally run both. They really work nice together. Then your Bikes would be troops to so they can late game turbo to take an objective. I also like having a bike squad with an Apothecary to help with overheat plasma's.

I like the addition of the Dread. The problkem with it is its one of 2 vehicles. The dread is relativly easy to kill also. Just needs more support I think.

The Land Raider is a big target. You might have a better time just having Beliels squad walk. Why do they have a CML if they are going in Transport? Seem slike a waste.

So This is my list that I play. I have upgraded it by dropping a squad of terms to add in 2 Dreads with Plasma cannons. Gives me more armor for others to deal with. The plasmas are nice to deal with heavy infantry as I don't want my Terminators to assault them. I would rather have them attack the easier squads. This is just to give you ideas of what you can have in a doublewing army. I in no way am trying to tell you to take this list.

Belial: LC's
Sammeal: Speeder

Terms:
Apoth: LC's
Banner: LC's
Sgt: TH/SS
LC's
LC's, CML

Terms: (Squads x3)
Sgt: TH/SS
LC's x2
LC's, CML
TH/SS

Bikes: x6
Sgt: PW (Just in case)
Apoth
2x Plasmaguns

Speeder: Typhoon, MM
Speeder: Typhoon, MM

Vindicator: Dozer
Vindicator: Dozer

Well I hope this helps. The Doublewing army is really fun to play. All in all pretty good list.

How effective is Sammy in a speeder?

He's pretty good, better than the jetbike IMO. The speeder is very survivable with its AV 14 front and side and the TL assault cannon and TL HB provide good anti-infantry as well as decent light anti-tank.

I love him. He is expensive for a pseeder, but he adds to Anti Infantry support and he is pretty hard to kill as Jack has just said.

You do want to play him smart and keep him out of CC range. as that is his true weakness. Also try to stay away from meltas too.

I think his real asset is to make bikes troops and having add a Apoth to a bike squad just makes that squad more surviveable as well.

I have yet to try him on the Jetbike. I don't like the fact that he is not an IC. I think he would have been alot betgter if he could join a bike squad.

@ indigo Mathhammer actually shows assault cannons (if in range mind you) are better at taking out av 14 than lascannons. The big deciding factor for choosing an assault cannon over the lascannon is this... how close do yo uwish to be to your target?

@balsak I kind of like his list a bit more because the vindi's are admittedly a little less reliable, but good hard armor... and also can hit hordes as well as take on heavy AV targets.

@ OP I have seen ravenwing / deathwing lists run together and honestly, doing what you are doing is really hit or miss. You will have amazing games with this list, and REALLY bad games... depends on how you wish to run it. Personally, I could see going completely mech-less with death-wing. What you gain by doing this is forcing your opponent to decide whether the bikes or the terminators are the better targets, in either case you will be hammering them HARD.

My vindies have done really good for me. Besides tehy are antoher hard hitting target like you said. Which keeps the fire off of the Terminators, Bikes and Speeders. All of which are more important to me.

Math hammer never works. I used to run 8 assault cannons in my army. I can't remember the last time I astually rended anything with them. Luckily the GW FAQ came out shortly after that I went to the CML's as they are far better.

I do agree I would like to see the dread have the assault cannon on it. Not for more AT but actually to help with infantry. This army can get bogged down by a lot of infantry. Any way to help that out is a good thing. Might alos want to put a flamer on the dread as well. This will help that out even more. The probelm is it is still one of 2 vehicles in this list and don't see it lasting very long.

Not to mention I still don't like meltas on bike squads. They just don't cut it for me. Not to men tion they are 3 man squads. Not a very effective squad once they get into CC. And they will if they get close enough to use Meltas.

Just My opinion's on the matter.

Ok so here is a revamped list taking some of the things said into consideration. I love the way TH/SS termies look especially with custom stormshields so while it might make the army a little less competitive I am opting to keep 4 TH/SS and 1 LC termie. I did however as suggested by balsak switch the LC to a standard terminator. All squads are now going to DS in using the homer in the bike squad.

I have had TERRIBLE luck with plasmas. I mean I have probably killed more guys than been effective. That is the only reason I went Melta over plasma. Maybe a 1 and 1 combo to ease the tension for me a little bit would work best.

The dreads are there for long range fire support (obviously taking into consideration their loadout). I am just unsure if I should be using them for fire support or maybe picking up some Destructors or running Vindis instead? Perhaps dropping them and adding in some typhoons. Really not sure at this point. The first game I played with Deathwing I ran all of them deep striking supported by 3 Vindicators. They are pretty nasty just put off by the fact that 1 weapon destroyed turns them into mobile cover.

Gonna give Sammael in a speeder a shot. The logic behind him makes sense and I can see it potentially being effective now that there has been some feedback on it.

Alright let me know what you think. 85 points to move around and maybe change out some units. Thanks for all the help thus far!

+++ Deathwing (1915pts) +++
+++ 2000pt Dark Angels 4th Edition (2007) Roster (Standard) +++

Selections:

+ HQ + (335pts)

* Belial - Master of The Deathwing (130pts)
Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield

* Sammael - Master of The Ravenwing (205pts)
Land Speeder

+ Elites + (310pts)

* Dreadnought (155pts)
Missile Launcher, Twin Linked Lascannon

* Dreadnought (155pts)
Missile Launcher, Twin Linked Lascannon

+ Troops + (1265pts)

* Deathwing Command Squad (Troops) (290pts)
Cyclone Missile Launcher, Deathwing Apothecary, Deathwing Company Standard Bearer, 3x Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, Twin Lightning Claws
* Sergeant
Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield

* Deathwing Terminator Squad (Troops) (235pts)
Cyclone Missile Launcher (20pts), 3x Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, Twin Lightning Claws
* Sergeant (43pts)
Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield

* Deathwing Terminator Squad (Troops) (235pts)
Cyclone Missile Launcher, 3x Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, Twin Lightning Claws
* Sergeant
Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield

* Deathwing Terminator Squad (Troops) (235pts)
Cyclone Missile Launcher, 3x Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, Twin Lightning Claws
* Sergeant
Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield

* Ravenwing Command Squadron (Troops) (275pts)
Ravenwing Apothecary
* 5 Ravenwing Bikers
Meltagun
Plasmagun
* Veteran Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon



Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

I like it better then the first one for sure. It feels better to me.

I still think the plasmas would be better, but I can understand you offput with them. I have that same feel with meltas too. I never hit with them. But I noticed that you added the Apoth which makes those overheats pretty easy to avoid. Just food for thought.

Dropping one Dread for 2 Speeder with typhoons would be superb in my opinion. Opens more target to shoot with and to get shot at.

I do have to worry about you planning on dropping all of them though. You could deploy 2 squads and have one squad DS the first turn. I useally do Beliel's squad. then you could have one in reserve for late game objective grabbing. Or nice support for bikes if they get caught up in something.

Again I like the list. Its a fun army to play, just kind of unforgiving from time to time.

Good Luck!

DrexMartell wrote:@ indigo Mathhammer actually shows assault cannons (if in range mind you) are better at taking out av 14 than lascannons. The big deciding factor for choosing an assault cannon over the lascannon is this... how close do yo uwish to be to your target?

While I agree that an assault cannon is better at popping AV 14 than a lascannon, it's not their optimum target. That's better reserved for melta weapons.

So then you recommend sticking with meltas indigo? At least one in the bike squad?

Honestly Meltas are fine.

Just be ready for them to die. I have yet to see melta bikes survive.

Do you know what army you are playing against? Could give some help with tactics.

Umm mostly Eldar, and Draigowing. Orks and Vanilla Marines (Assault Marine Heavy) every now and then.

If you're gonna use meltas on bikes, I'd go with just a 3 man squad with 2 meltas. It's a 120 pts, It gives you 2 scouting meltas and a teleport homer for DW assault. It's not a terrible price for a suicide squad, and with termies to back them up, they may even survive to turn 2.

TheMostWize wrote:Umm mostly Eldar, and Draigowing. Orks and Vanilla Marines (Assault Marine Heavy) every now and then.

Well Eldar most of your meltas are going to be wasted, either by the shields on the serpents or the holo filds on the flacons. A bike counsil will hold up a squad of terminators all game. lol Stupid re rollable inv save.

Draigowing is a pretty dumb list. Hopefully you can get a few instant kills on those Pallies. Missiles all day.

Orks, well Not sure what kinda Orks. Tide you will need to get alot of hits from those CML's blast. If it BW rush those meltas should be able to do the trick if you can get close enough. and fail his save from the KFF. Kan wall same thing really. Hope he fails the KFF save. Or try to get ride of the Meks first and foremost.

You should have no problem with Marines. The terminators should make pretty short work of them Assault Marines.

Hrm... Well I am thinking that I will probably run LC squads against the orks since my termies will be magnetized. I know TH/SS get destroyed by tide orks because of the sheer volume of attacks. LC and CML blasts should thin them enough. Luckily for me the Eldar player does not run seer counsel on bikes. Matter of fact he really does not play any lists that I find too scary. Any tricks would be helpful though I am pretty good at coming up with a strat just never played space marines let alone deathwing until I recently decided to switch to the Imperium side. So if no meltas then what against the Eldar shields?

Well they still work as str 8 weapons. You just don't get the 2d6 against the serpents, and Falcons are just a pain to kill. You have to roll 2d6 for pen roll and get the lowest.

Hopefully the missiles will help out there. Blow up vehicles and it should be easy to kill them.

Ah ok so volume of shots might be needed to get the kill. I can see how meltas might not work very well against the Eldar then. Might try and get a PF biker then and assault the vehicles if possible. I can usually get him to move his vehicles into less optimum positions.