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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

Valentine009 wrote:
Dude I am just sick of the passive aggression. When you post online and misrepresent what really happened to make yourself some sort of victim it is infuriating.

I have spent loads of time trying to work with you and explain why 3 baneblade lists are not enjoyable games for your opponent (and this forum has spent time, and other members of our club has spent time) and there is just no effort on your part to adjust your inflexible attitude. I understand 3 baneblade lists may not be inbalanced in tournaments, or in metas with lots of anti-armor, but it is incredibly inbalanced in our local meta where most people play fairly casual TAC lists.

Seriously if you were just nice about it you would probably get the occasional game and people would want to humor you (like your game coming up this weekend), but when you make passive aggressive comments about how we are all trying to ruin your fun because all you care about are skewed LoW lists, and how if we were better it would be easier for us, it just makes me want to tell you to https://www.reddit.com/r/quityourbullshit/

/rant. we can take it offline.


I'm not trying to be passive aggressive, and if I come out that way, then I apologize. But I'm not "misrepresenting" anything. I'm telling it like it is. I do feel a bit victimized; I introduced myself as a guy that plays an "urban combat superheavy regiment" and then get told later we're doing a cityfight campaign. I was ecstatic. I was like "cityfight, narrative campaign? That's the PERFECT context for which I have been building this army! This is my dream came true!"

I painted like a mad man to try to get some neat stuff done. I threw together a bunch of trial 3k master lists and kinda dicked around with various options.

And then I was dick-punched by "no max one LOW, it's infantry focused."

Oh... okay then. Wish I'd've known before I got all excited. So yes, I feel like a victim.

And I do understand why 3-Baneblade lists are unenjoyable. I really do. It's why I'm okay not getting games; if I didn't get one this weekend, I'd go to Victory Comics instead where they are okay with it.

So yes, I feel ostracized and I did before I started worrying about it online & verbally.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/30 19:22:03


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

 Blackie wrote:
Well, it doesn't seem like there are many lists that can wreck a baneblade after all. Mostly imperium stuff. But bringing tons of lascannons or equivalents isn't TAC at all, for example a list with 3 las predator may be an hard counter for you but it's not that common since it will struggle against several opponents. T.Sons have those preds as well but you'll never see a huge amount of lascannons in their list, they have other typical builds.

Fire dragons have a crappy 12'' range and only a 6'' melta range, which means that they shouldn't even be able to target the superheavy in turn one if they arrive by WWP, unless your list just has the lone big tank in turn 1 and nothing else. I think you have points for other stuff to mess deep strikers' arrive.

The tyranids anectode is a good one, but I'm sure it wouldn't be the norm if you play against tyranids.

Some examples are matches against other superheavies. If the opponent has a baneblade or even 2 stormsurges I don't think he/she would have a problem in facing your favorite list and you'll certainly be able to deploy all tanks in turn 1.

And as you said a lot of what you listed were part of the same army, which strenghtens my point when I say that there are actually a few possible lists that can cripple a baneblade in turn 1 with average rolls.

We're not even considering the fact that you should be able to have first turn at least 50% of the games, since you'll certainly have a few drops compared to the average 40k list. Again killing a superheavy in the first turn is something exceptional, even for competitive lists. Unless they are tailored against you.

Once I've played a list with 210 boyz/stormboyz, with also a KFF for a 5+ invuln and the painboy for a 6+ FNP. I started second and the opponent managed to kill all my infantries by turn 3 and not a single ork did manage to charge. Ok, I failed to cast Da Jump in turn 1 and the following turn I failed the 9'' charge, but it did happen. Killing 90-120 boyz in the first turn is possible but luckily not the normal. I just started second against a list that was optimized against infantries and I poorly rolled a couple of key rolls. It doesn't mean than orks will lose 210 boyz by the enemy shooting in an average game.


I don't understand your post; are you saying "I should take screens, and I'm losing tanks because I'm not" or are you saying "other people with superheavies can handle it sure, but I don;t personally run them so they don't exist?" or "people don't bring a ton of lascannons and melta?"

Because if it's the last one, there's literally a post somewhere on this forum where someone has like, 2 lascannon dev squads, 1 multi-melta dev squad, and is asking how to beat genestealers with this so-called "TAC" list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/30 19:11:46


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Snivelling Workbot




Washington, DC

And I do understand why 3-Baneblade lists are unenjoyable. I really do. It's why I'm okay not getting games; if I didn't get one this weekend, I'd go to Victory Comics instead where they are okay with it
.

You do realize this statement is passive aggressive though right? It is some sort of weird threat that you are going to leave and go play with another group that doesn't victimize you.


#dontbeatony

3500+
(Raven Guard) 7000+
(Scions) 1500+ 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

 Infantryman wrote:
Unit1126PLL wrote: And it's unfluffy for me (without a teammate) to screen superheavies anyways, since superheavy tank regiments don't have access to their own integral infantry formations.


It's totally fine to do this - indeed, that is Normal in our current real world formations.

Usually you will take elements (such as a company) from an Armored Division and attach it to some larger Infantry formation.


I am planning on starting. Earlier I hadn't for a couple of reasons elaborated earlier in the thread, but if it helps other people see my list as more balanced and normal than I will.

The only thing I'm afraid of is that it will make the list better and even more unfun to play against.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Valentine009 wrote:
And I do understand why 3-Baneblade lists are unenjoyable. I really do. It's why I'm okay not getting games; if I didn't get one this weekend, I'd go to Victory Comics instead where they are okay with it
.

You do realize this statement is passive aggressive though right? It is some sort of weird threat that you are going to leave and go play with another group that doesn't victimize you.



No that's not what I meant; Victory Comics plays from 6-9 on saturday so I could do both!

Rather than a threat to leave, it was an illustration that for some reason other clubs don't have this problem, that's all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/30 19:17:43


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in gb
Imperial Admiral





Glasgow

And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/30 19:32:36


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.


Oh my god I'm becoming martel.

Send help!

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Unit1126PLL wrote:


They were near Cawl, like every Onager ever has been that I've played.

Did you remember the minimum 3 damage on the Neutron Laser and take into account the ability to re-roll number of shots with a CP? If I recall, he did that once.


Ah ha - forgot Cawl - makes sense - thanks!

Though that is well over 700 points of stuff.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/30 19:54:20


 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





East Bay, Ca, US

I've noticed a lot of players being totally inflexible with casual/narrative/fluffy campaigns.

There should be campaign and game options for new / inexperienced / fundamentally "bad" players to enjoy the game without getting waxed.


To compute the probability of a specific outcome on N DK dice, use the generating function F= (x+ x^2 + x^3 + . . . + x^k-1 + x^k)^n

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy.
How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

 
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin





 Unit1126PLL wrote:
That is a cool idea, but if I can put things in reserve I could drop down to just running one anyways, because then it wouldn't get alpha-struck.

Can't you just run one and say it's Tallarn for the Ambush stratagem
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

 Arachnofiend wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
That is a cool idea, but if I can put things in reserve I could drop down to just running one anyways, because then it wouldn't get alpha-struck.

Can't you just run one and say it's Tallarn for the Ambush stratagem


That's actually genius...

... this is exactly why I post on the internet to ask for help. People are far smarter than me.

There's a way to keep a superheavy in reserve! I can't believe I didn't see it before.

I wish I could hold up a huge sign that says "problem solved!"

FWIW: I did exalt the post, if that helps.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/30 21:00:46


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




What does any of this have to do with Chapter Approved?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
What does any of this have to do with Chapter Approved?

Nothing. As someone above mentioned, I hijacked the thread. My bad!

I am very happy I found a solution, even so, though at this point the discussion has, in fact, completely deviated off topic.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
That is a cool idea, but if I can put things in reserve I could drop down to just running one anyways, because then it wouldn't get alpha-struck.

Can't you just run one and say it's Tallarn for the Ambush stratagem


That's actually genius...

... this is exactly why I post on the internet to ask for help. People are far smarter than me.

There's a way to keep a superheavy in reserve! I can't believe I didn't see it before.

I wish I could hold up a huge sign that says "problem solved!"

FWIW: I did exalt the post, if that helps.


Wait ... are you kidding ?! I'm reading these posts.thinking . He does know the Tallern strat right....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/30 22:22:41


 
   
Made in us
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan






 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.


Oh my god I'm becoming martel.

Send help!


I laughed so hard reading this. Still waiting for Martel to chime in on the BA news and rumors. I watch that thread daily waiting for him to come in and gak on everyones good vibes. Lol.

   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I won't till i know more. It all depends on the costs of a few units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/30 23:23:41


 
   
Made in us
Implaccable Grey Knight Paladin







 zedsdead wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
That is a cool idea, but if I can put things in reserve I could drop down to just running one anyways, because then it wouldn't get alpha-struck.

Can't you just run one and say it's Tallarn for the Ambush stratagem


That's actually genius...

... this is exactly why I post on the internet to ask for help. People are far smarter than me.

There's a way to keep a superheavy in reserve! I can't believe I didn't see it before.

I wish I could hold up a huge sign that says "problem solved!"

FWIW: I did exalt the post, if that helps.


Wait ... are you kidding ?! I'm reading these posts.thinking . He does know the Tallern strat right....


He DOES know about it I talked to him about it LITERALLY the day the IG came out. Give me an hour.

EDIT: FOUND IT I was wrong about it being the day IG came out forgive me.

 Quickjager wrote:
His fluffy list; fluffy list generally have a weakness, Unit's weakness is literally what everyone else suffers from. I Got Shot Before I Could Shoot Syndrome. Very deadly to all forms of models in 40k, recently the I Got Stabbed And I Didn't Do Nothing Syndrome is making a comeback as well with this edition but to a much less extent.

So he has a weakness and he wants to fix it. Well with his remaining 500 points he could buy a few Infantry Squad to screen his Baneblades. Or he could get Sentinels, or even 6 Hellhounds which he could turn sideways with a few inches of space in between them. He could even decide to go Tallarn and invoke their 3 CP stratagem to hide his Baneblades in reserve. He could stop bringing the FW repair vehicle as if he losses 2 tanks in his first two turns it obviously is being useless. He could even invest in buildings to block certain approach angles.

He has all the tools to succeed. But he is just sitting there being punched in the face saying, "I want MY list to work". At a certain point if you are LOSING games consistently, it isn't working so you should probably try changing the list up a bit.

So why is his tank blowing up so much?
-He is playing 80% of the same list every game against the same people, obviously they aren't robots, so of course they know what to do.
-He played in NOVA, where quite simply any non-optimized list is eviscerated.
-He won't take the tools to prevent it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/30 23:58:38


 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block




 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I would kill for some screening units myself, and am considering taking them for sure. But that only makes my list more powerful and less fluffy, because superheavy tank regiments don't have access to infantry formations, sadly. If I ever play a team game with another regiment player, though, you bet my ass I'm begging for him to screen my tanks with his men. Or sentinels. Or whatever regiment type they play.


My final thoughts on the subject. You say that just taking one Superheavy means it gets blown off the board immediately by alpha strike. Ok, fair enough. You also say that you’d like to add some screening elements, but 3 superheavies plus screens is too powerful for casual games. Yeah, I can get behind that.

What’s wrong with the middle ground? Take one Superheavy and screen it effectively. That should stop it being alpha-struck off the board, while not being unmanageably powerful. You get to play with your favourite unit, your opponent has the rest of your army for the rest of their army to interact with, and your games shouldn’t be so one-dimensional. Sometimes you will come up against an army that is capable of shooting over the screen and removing the tank before it gets a turn, but that just happens sometimes. It’s just a bad match-up.

If that bad match-up is happening routinely, one of two things is happening. Either you play in a super-competitive meta, in which case, tough break man, or you have a reputation as ‘the guy who always brings superheavies’. The latter means people will list-tailor against you and do something they normally wouldn’t - like bring triple quad-Las Predators. There’s only one solution to having a reputation work against it in a very clear manner. Play a dozen games without a superheavy and people will start to realise that tailoring against you won’t work. There’s no shortcut to changing your reputation (in any aspect of life, sadly).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Martel732 wrote:
I won't till i know more. It all depends on the costs of a few units.


If feel like it's problematic to chime in when there is something negative, but to wait to process all the info if there is something positive. Though I guess that's the MO of the board...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/01 03:38:38


 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





CO

Why can't he just take battle tanks and a superheavy. Makes sense. You can even keep doctrines if you make it a supreme command with tank commanders.

5k Imperial Guard
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Made in us
Dakka Veteran






I really dont see an issue here.. im trying to figure out wtf posting comment after comment on why his gaming group has issues with his 3 Baneblades and 1 Baneblade isnt terribly good. ?!

I play 3 Baneblades myself. When i want a practice game for Tournament i tell my club members, local friendly clubs and game store players that i am looking for a game against my 3 Baneblades. Never... have i not been given a game.

When i play a friendly (non competitve game) i leave 2 of them home and play with 1. I have plenty of other AM units to field.

Its not like Magnus, Morty, Imp Knights, FW units..ect arent in play in my area. 1 Baneblade should really never be an issue unless its a new player.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Colonel Cross wrote:
Why can't he just take battle tanks and a superheavy. Makes sense. You can even keep doctrines if you make it a supreme command with tank commanders.


yup...hell you can even grab 2 Baneblades using 2 SC detatchments.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/01 05:36:58


 
   
Made in it
Drifting Cronos Hungry for Souls




Italy

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


I don't understand your post; are you saying "I should take screens, and I'm losing tanks because I'm not" or are you saying "other people with superheavies can handle it sure, but I don;t personally run them so they don't exist?" or "people don't bring a ton of lascannons and melta?"

Because if it's the last one, there's literally a post somewhere on this forum where someone has like, 2 lascannon dev squads, 1 multi-melta dev squad, and is asking how to beat genestealers with this so-called "TAC" list.


I'm saying all these things

You should defintely take screeners, and with 3 superheavies in a 2000 points lists I don't think you'll have points for something different than cheap fillers.

If your opponent loves superheavies you won't have problems to play regular games against him/her. Why should you reserve your baneblades when the other player is allowed to bring two stormsurges? I've never said that the list with 3 superheavies is overpowered, just very boring to face and many lists have only one tactic against it, focussing on a sinlge tank and scoring objectives. Maybe even only scoring objectives and completely ignoring the tanks.

A list with tons of lascannons may exist but like you said, it struggles against a lot of common lists like an average tyranids army and in fact he's asking help because that list doesn't work. I'm sure the answers that player will get about making his list more competitve are about cutting some anti tank and bringing more anti infantry. A list like that one is a beginner's mistake, he's going to fix that soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
kombatwombat wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I would kill for some screening units myself, and am considering taking them for sure. But that only makes my list more powerful and less fluffy, because superheavy tank regiments don't have access to infantry formations, sadly. If I ever play a team game with another regiment player, though, you bet my ass I'm begging for him to screen my tanks with his men. Or sentinels. Or whatever regiment type they play.


My final thoughts on the subject. You say that just taking one Superheavy means it gets blown off the board immediately by alpha strike. Ok, fair enough. You also say that you’d like to add some screening elements, but 3 superheavies plus screens is too powerful for casual games. Yeah, I can get behind that.

What’s wrong with the middle ground? Take one Superheavy and screen it effectively. That should stop it being alpha-struck off the board, while not being unmanageably powerful. You get to play with your favourite unit, your opponent has the rest of your army for the rest of their army to interact with, and your games shouldn’t be so one-dimensional. Sometimes you will come up against an army that is capable of shooting over the screen and removing the tank before it gets a turn, but that just happens sometimes. It’s just a bad match-up.


Exactly this. 100% agree.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/01 08:12:01


Orks 9000
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Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Harlow

How is this another thread with Unit trying to make his cheese 3 baneblade lists "okay because I like fluff"

Then EVERYONE telling him it's not fun, just play something different

Then Unit replying every time "I know it's because I use 3 baneblades but I like playing them so it's okay despite it being real cheese people should just play me"

Man that gak is getting old real fast.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/01 09:47:11


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Huntsville, Texas

 AaronWilson wrote:
How this another thread with Unit trying to make his cheese 3 baneblade lists "okay because I like fluff"

Then EVERYONE telling him it's not fun, just play something different

Then Unit replying every time "I know it's because I use 3 baneblades but I like playing them so it's okay despite it being real cheese people should just play me"

Man that gak is getting old real fast.


Yeah. It's pretty stupid. It really shouldn't be freaking rocket surgery to figure it out. A 3 or so page pity party about running 3 superheavies, where any advice given is just ignored to try and garner more pity. Nope. All set.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

2 things:

1) With the Tallarn stratagem: somehow, until very recently, I had convinced myself that Baneblades with sponsons were more than 7" wide. Having dismissed the stratagem, I did not think to revisit it (even after being corrected about the width). So yes, it was a mistake, but I am glad I have been reminded.

2) I will try not to bring it up as often. I do wish GW would balance the game enough that it isn't such a problem to bring 3 big tanks. It is a fluffy list and is fairly TAC, able to deal with a wide variety of threats and whatnot, and if I build the list right I can get 6 10-man obsec units with it. But for now, with the Tallarn stratagem, I can run one.

Sorry for thread derail.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/01 12:21:42


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in gb
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Harlow

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
2 things:

1) With the Tallarn stratagem: somehow, until very recently, I had convinced myself that Baneblades with sponsons were more than 7" wide. Having dismissed the stratagem, I did not think to revisit it (even after being corrected about the width). So yes, it was a mistake, but I am glad I have been reminded.

2) I will try not to bring it up as often. I do wish GW would balance the game enough that it isn't such a problem to bring 3 big tanks. It is a fluffy list and is fairly TAC, able to deal with a wide variety of threats and whatnot, and if I build the list right I can get 6 10-man obsec units with it. But for now, with the Tallarn stratagem, I can run one.

Sorry for thread derail.


A 3 baneblades list is TAC? At this point my friend I believe you're just disillusioned.

LOTR SBG - Isengard - 330.
Horus Heresy - Custodes - 2710.
Warhammer 40k - Primaris - 1562.
Horus Heresy - World Eaters - 5274.
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Warmachine & Hordes - Legion of Everblight.



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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

 AaronWilson wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
2 things:

1) With the Tallarn stratagem: somehow, until very recently, I had convinced myself that Baneblades with sponsons were more than 7" wide. Having dismissed the stratagem, I did not think to revisit it (even after being corrected about the width). So yes, it was a mistake, but I am glad I have been reminded.

2) I will try not to bring it up as often. I do wish GW would balance the game enough that it isn't such a problem to bring 3 big tanks. It is a fluffy list and is fairly TAC, able to deal with a wide variety of threats and whatnot, and if I build the list right I can get 6 10-man obsec units with it. But for now, with the Tallarn stratagem, I can run one.

Sorry for thread derail.


A 3 baneblades list is TAC? At this point my friend I believe you're just disillusioned.


TAC is "take all comers" right? As in, able to deal with most threats that are likely to appear?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/01 12:28:25


 
   
Made in gb
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Harlow

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 AaronWilson wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
2 things:

1) With the Tallarn stratagem: somehow, until very recently, I had convinced myself that Baneblades with sponsons were more than 7" wide. Having dismissed the stratagem, I did not think to revisit it (even after being corrected about the width). So yes, it was a mistake, but I am glad I have been reminded.

2) I will try not to bring it up as often. I do wish GW would balance the game enough that it isn't such a problem to bring 3 big tanks. It is a fluffy list and is fairly TAC, able to deal with a wide variety of threats and whatnot, and if I build the list right I can get 6 10-man obsec units with it. But for now, with the Tallarn stratagem, I can run one.

Sorry for thread derail.


A 3 baneblades list is TAC? At this point my friend I believe you're just disillusioned.


TAC is "take all comers" right? As in, able to deal with most threats that are likely to appear?


Take ALL corners is NOT 3 superheavy tanks. Your list is a skew list.

I won't carry on to derail this thread / other threads after this is point as it's HUGELY obvious from the fella that knows you's post and your responses here's the situation.

You really want to play 3 baneblades, it might be because you like crushing people with them, it might be the fluffiest thing ever existed and it's probably a mix between the two. Repeatedly you have said "People don't like playing me / 3 baneblades what can I do?" People have given you probably up to 100 different good responses from this thread or the 5+ other threads that have derailed into this topic.

Your constant response is "I don't want to not use 3 Baneblades as If I use less then 3 it's less powerful / fluffy or some variation of this answer". This has happened for like - 5 separate threads.

The answer is 3 bane blades is NOT a "regular game" of 40k and if you want people to enjoy playing you're going to have to play a less "powerful" or fluffy army - yes you're going to have sacrifice something for your opponents happiness. If you don't want to do that, don't play those people. That's the definitive line.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

Ok; I thought TAC just meant a list that could handle a variety of expected opponents and threats and didn't know it precluded a list being skew as well.

Thank you for correcting me.

In reply to the rest of your post, yeah, I will shut up about it. I can PM you some more thoughts if you like but I doubt you're interested in them.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle




Tampa, FL

With all due respect can you guys take this Baneblade/TAC discussion to another thread?

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





 Unit1126PLL wrote:
2 things:

1) With the Tallarn stratagem: somehow, until very recently, I had convinced myself that Baneblades with sponsons were more than 7" wide. Having dismissed the stratagem, I did not think to revisit it (even after being corrected about the width). So yes, it was a mistake, but I am glad I have been reminded.

2) I will try not to bring it up as often. I do wish GW would balance the game enough that it isn't such a problem to bring 3 big tanks. It is a fluffy list and is fairly TAC, able to deal with a wide variety of threats and whatnot, and if I build the list right I can get 6 10-man obsec units with it. But for now, with the Tallarn stratagem, I can run one.

Sorry for thread derail.


in regards to #2 they cannot possibly do this and have those tanks represent what they are supposed to. It is things like this that make me wish imperial knights had never been a stand alone army. You cannot possibly balance the game around armies being able to kill 200 models that are low T, and 3-4 that are super durable at the same time. I think there really need to be more restrictions if you want the game to be competitive, for fun fluffy games I think take whatever works fine, but in a competitive environment it only ever leads to skew lists.

This is one reason I like the old way that WHFB did army construction using percentages 8th edition were

at least 1 character (lord or hero) and 3 non-character unit

You had Characters that could be up to I think 25% of your total points -and you needed to include at least 1 I believe
Core choices (troops essentially though could also be some lower level elite/fast/heavy choices) had to be at least 25% of your total points (perhaps consider a cap in points spent here to prevent some of the larger horde armies, or individual horde choices need to be capped)
special choices- (most elites, fast smaller heavy support units) no more than 50% of your list - no more than 3 duplicates of a choice unless playing larger armies
Rare choices - huge monsters and such (where super heavy units should go) - no more than 25 % of your list - only 2 duplicates unless larger games.

Now you could tweak the percentages around a bit for 40k depending on typical point value played(WFB was 2500 most of the time I believe), and armies would need to be restructured to fit units into these different categories, but this is they type of army construction that is needed to consistently avoid skew lists. For instance a 500 point super heavy would take up your entire rare slot at 2000 points, likely you cannot field an all tank army. I will say that for this to work it really requires good internal balance among units otherwise every army just ends up looking the same (though competitively this is often true now anyway).

I'm not suggesting this exact break down (as it does not stop things like playing all boyz for orks.)

Now people will come on here and say "But I only want to play with my tanks, and I should be allowed to do so, it is fluffy" I agree that it is fluffy, however if what you want is balance and to avoid skew lists you cannot allow for inherently unbalanced scenarios to exist. A composition system like this basically ensures that no matter what unit you take it will always have a target that it is reasonable for dealing with.

The issue right now is GW has blurred the lines between "narrative/fun/themed" games and "competitive" games because they don't want to restrict what people will buy (see move of super heavies into regular games, because they were not selling as well prior to that) They want people to buy 3 Baneblades, and if they can only ever use 1 in most games lots of people won't buy 3. But that doesn't create a balanced game, it creates a game where lists are very skewed because they are allowed to be, even encouraged to be.
   
 
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