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Hi Dakka.

So, let's say that 10 Grey Hunters assault 10 Space Marines with Marneus Calgar. Before Marneus can attack, the Grey Hunters have killed all the Space Marines.

Marneus is now left not in base contact with anyone, but the unit that he assaulted with is dead.

Can he assault? Or is he left standing, and has to pile in at the end of the assault phase?


DIAGRAM:

First, since the Grey Hunters are assaulting, Calgar (as an IC) must move into base contact if possible during defenders react moves.

Second, whether or not he gets to attack is debatable and if someone else wants to start that argument, they may.

Third, if your group plays that he does not get to attack (as he is not in base contact initially), he would still be locked in combat, and would pile-in.

Even if the SM had survived Calgar cannot swing because an IC counts as a separate unit in CC. Since he is not in base contact with ab enemy nor is he withing a model in his unit (really just himself because he is his own unit in CC), he cannot attack.

Who can attack is determined at the start of combat. So if Marneus could attack at the start, he can attack when it's his turn even if no longer in B2B due to casulties.
However in your example he was not engaged with anyone at the start (IC have to be in B2B to attak), so cannot attack.

He would have to pile in due to being part if the unit. If he passes moral, or just auto do what ever he does.

If he would have been able to attack before the Marines died, then he can still attack when it gets to his initiative step, regardless of any other casualties (Rulebook p35, last paragraph under 'Who Can Fight?'), unless he himself is dead, of course.

you guys know Marneus Calgar has a power weapon right? At I5 he would go first... but to add to the thread, MC was still in combat even if he could not attack so he would pile in (as unlikely as it is because IC must move into base contact if possible during defenders react moves.)

Rex-Nine wrote:you guys know Marneus Calgar has a power weapon right? At I5 he would go first...

Not if he is using his power fists.

Chowderhead wrote:Hi Dakka.

So, let's say that 10 Grey Hunters assault 10 Space Marines with Marneus Calgar. Before Marneus can attack, the Grey Hunters have killed all the Space Marines.

Marneus is now left not in base contact with anyone, but the unit that he assaulted with is dead.

Can he assault? Or is he left standing, and has to pile in at the end of the assault phase?

To sum up the questions:

1) If an IC is not in base contact after all assault moves have been made, can he attack? The answer, no. He would have to get into base contact during the "Defender Reacts" move. However, if he was in base contact before blows, then he gets to attack, even if he is not in base contact when it's his turn.

2) What happens to an IC at the end of the assault if the squad he is with is killed but at least one model from the enemy squad still exists? Answer: The same thing that would happen if the squad didn't all die. i.e. take the leadership tests, etc. and pile in/fall back/whatever. In this specific example, Marneus would take a LD test with -10 (since his side lost combat by 10). If he passed (unlikely), he piles in, if he fails then he might get swept.

Tye_Informer wrote:In this specific example, Marneus would take a LD test with -10 (since his side lost combat by 10). If he passed (unlikely), he piles in, if he fails then he might get swept.

Being Marneus, he chooses whether to pass or fail, rather than having to roll. So passing isn't unlikely at all...

@insaniak: True, unless one happens to also bring another model with Chapter Tactics.

If I were playing Calgar, I would have used his power sword at I5 and cream those GH early on.

leohart wrote:@insaniak: True, unless one happens to also bring another model with Chapter Tactics..

Not true, Calgar does not have Chapter Tactics. Only Combat Tactics. God of War is what grants the auto pass/fail morale tests.

@Happyjew: Orly? Last time I checked, Chapter Tactics always remove Combat Tactics. And God of War rule only apply to units with Combat Tactics.

If Calgar is tagging along Vulkan, he is not auto pass/fail as he wishes. I don't think you even have a choice to NOT apply Chapter Tactics when an HQ with that rule is present.

leohart wrote:@Happyjew: Orly? Last time I checked, Chapter Tactics always remove Combat Tactics. And God of War rule only apply to units with Combat Tactics.

If Calgar is tagging along Vulkan, he is not auto pass/fail as he wishes. I don't think you even have a choice to NOT apply Chapter Tactics when an HQ with that rule is present.

God of War applies to Marneus specifically, and then units with Combat Tactics can choose to pass or fail.
And if there's another chapter master he replaces his Combat Tactics with their ability - but he's still God of War.

@rigeld2: I stand corrected. Thank you.