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Shouldn't some version of Dreadnought be available as an HQ choice?
I mean, Dreads are all revered warriors and such with great advisory uses,
why can't they be used as HQ?

The Venerable Dread should be one, at least.

Recall Agrippan the Dreadnought from Fall of Damnos and the SM Codex.

he took command when Sicarius was incapacitated!

Imperial Armour 2 has a generic Chaplain Dreadnought HQ for SM, BT and DA. SW have Bjorn.
I could see a charachter dread in the SM codex as an Iron Hands guy...or a Salamander, ala Badab war

thanks for the reply, I will probably check it out.

This is the first thread I've seen here that wasn't absurd so I feel like you should get a medal or something.

Anyways, back on topic. Yea I see you're point, venerable dreadnoughts are often melenia old veterans who's insight is often sought by army leaders. It would only make sense if there was a command dreadnought. Of course the chaplain dreadnought could work given a group of players that use the codex it's listed in, I know not everyone around my place acknowledges the FW books as legitimate. I will say this however, the HQ version should have either heavier armor or some kind of armor save to set them apart gameplay wise from the other dreadnoughts.

The Chaplain-dread has a rosarius aka an inv-save against any damageresult.

Shadox wrote:The Chaplain-dread has a rosarius aka an inv-save against any damageresult.

Wow, so there we go, it is just a chaplain in a big metal box.

Another question: are the librarian dreadnoughts in the BA codex HQ units? or just Elites?

They are an upgrade for the normal furioso so Elite-slot.

Are dreads cognitive enough to take a command role? I mean, I know DoW isn't exactly canon, but Davian Thule was reduced to a bumbling, monosyllabic shell of a man when he was entombed in a dreadnought.

Are there other examples of dreads who are lucid and could feasibly plan a battle?

Would this be a good place to make up an HQ dread?

Like:

200 points

Dreadnought Captain
WS BS S F S R I A
5 5 6 13 12 11 4 3 and a 4+ invulnerable save.

Wargear/ Options.
Dreadnought CCW, Multimelta, Ironclad Assault Launchers, Iron Halo (a nice big one),

has normal dreadnought options.

Special Rules
Independent character, Venerable, Tactical Wisdom

Tactical Wisdom: makes one non-vehicle unit in the army have the Scouts rule


Automatically Appended Next Post:

lunarman wrote:Are dreads cognitive enough to take a command role? I mean, I know DoW isn't exactly canon, but Davian Thule was reduced to a bumbling, monosyllabic shell of a man when he was entombed in a dreadnought.

Are there other examples of dreads who are lucid and could feasibly plan a battle?

Recall Agrippan again. (Fall of Damnos) but he's really my only fluff example that doesn't have a unit slot thingy.

There is also Bjorn and the Librarian Dreadnought, though.

And you're right, DoW is a mangled place to get canon things. (METAL BAWXES and such)

lunarman wrote:Are dreads cognitive enough to take a command role? I mean, I know DoW isn't exactly canon, but Davian Thule was reduced to a bumbling, monosyllabic shell of a man when he was entombed in a dreadnought.

Are there other examples of dreads who are lucid and could feasibly plan a battle?

I think it vary from dread to dread. The codex only says, that his advices will always be heard by his brothers. So there must be dreads who are cognitive enough to make battle-determining decisions even if it's only from time to time.

^ Yes because the dreadnoughts 'sleep' most of the time anyway.

Decio wrote:

200 points

Dreadnought Captain
WS BS S F S R I A
5 5 6 13 12 11 4 3 and a 4+ invulnerable save.

Wargear/ Options.
Dreadnought CCW, Multimelta, Ironclad Assault Launchers, Iron Halo (a nice big one),

has normal dreadnought options.

Special Rules
Independent character, Venerable, Tactical Wisdom

Tactical Wisdom: makes one non-vehicle unit in the army have the Scouts rule

How do IC walkers even work?

Dunno, Dreads move/run like normal infantry but have a bigger base so I guess it would still have the same rule. (within 2" of unit to count as moving with them and such)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now I'm wondering if a Command Squad would work..

Out of Dreads? lolwut? Most companies have 2-3 dreads, sometimes less and normally you got SMs operating on company-basis and even then Dreads are only woken up if the mission really deserves it. Also I would not think they would form squads, as there would always be a hierarchy between all of them ala "I was captain twelve years longer than you so I should be the sergeant!".

lol okay. The Dread Captain should have a retinue or special Dredanought rule for the army like Chapter Tactics.

added up all of the given ultra dreads in the codex and counted 26.

Maybe not squads per se, but maybe just groups of 1-3 dreadnoughts with no real officer (they're all officer class, really.)

The dread captain is way too cheap.
Bjorn is well more than that with a 5+ invul, lower initiative, and becoming an extra objective if killed.

^ Wow. Are you kidding? Bjorn has WS/BS 6, Strength 7 (though it really doesn't matter unless his ccw is blown off) 4 attacks, and a frak load of weird wargear and special rules?

All the Dread Captain got was a bit more metal plating on the rear armor than Bjorn but 1 higher Initiative point.

That said, Bjorn is the oldest Dreadnought so I guess it would make sense to make him a bit slow.

Okay, points will go up to 290 then. (adding basic captain to regular venerable and adding a bit more for the extra rule)

lunarman wrote:Are dreads cognitive enough to take a command role? I mean, I know DoW isn't exactly canon, but Davian Thule was reduced to a bumbling, monosyllabic shell of a man when he was entombed in a dreadnought.

Are there other examples of dreads who are lucid and could feasibly plan a battle?

The Violators in the novel Daemon World were lead by a dreadnought who was interned because of his tactical brilliance. That being said; the rules for chaos dreadnoughts certainly do not represent the kind of level headedness required to command an army.

Bores

lunarman wrote:Are dreads cognitive enough to take a command role? I mean, I know DoW isn't exactly canon, but Davian Thule was reduced to a bumbling, monosyllabic shell of a man when he was entombed in a dreadnought.

Are there other examples of dreads who are lucid and could feasibly plan a battle?

Iron Hands lore is plastered with Dreadnoughts not only leading armies, but actually leading their respective Clans as well. Then there's also Bjorn from the Space Wolves. So yes, Dreadnoughts are more than capable of leading armies.

Dread hq's would be soo good. Especially the librarian kit dread means that it would be easy enough to convert into a chaplain

The librarian dread himself/itself should be HQ. I mean, come on!

I'm pretty sure Morleo Moriar used to be a HQ choice in the old Blood Angels codex?

WaaaaghLord wrote:I'm pretty sure Morleo Moriar used to be a HQ choice in the old Blood Angels codex?

Who/What is Morleo Moriar?

Decio wrote:Would this be a good place to make up an HQ dread?

Like:

200 points

Dreadnought Captain
WS BS S F S R I A
5 5 6 13 12 11 4 3 and a 4+ invulnerable save.

Wargear/ Options.
Dreadnought CCW, Multimelta, Ironclad Assault Launchers, Iron Halo (a nice big one),

has normal dreadnought options.

Special Rules
Independent character, Venerable, Tactical Wisdom

Tactical Wisdom: makes one non-vehicle unit in the army have the Scouts rule

Giving a Dread a 4++, RA 11 and venerable is just going to be a little ridiculous. It will be stupidly hard to kill.
Does normal Dreadnought options include a Drop Pod?

Decio wrote:

WaaaaghLord wrote:I'm pretty sure Morleo Moriar used to be a HQ choice in the old Blood Angels codex?

Who/What is Morleo Moriar?

Moriar the Chosen was the 'original' Death-Company-Dreadnought

Painbiro wrote:

Decio wrote:Would this be a good place to make up an HQ dread?

Like:

200 points

Dreadnought Captain
WS BS S F S R I A
5 5 6 13 12 11 4 3 and a 4+ invulnerable save.

Wargear/ Options.
Dreadnought CCW, Multimelta, Ironclad Assault Launchers, Iron Halo (a nice big one),

has normal dreadnought options.

Special Rules
Independent character, Venerable, Tactical Wisdom

Tactical Wisdom: makes one non-vehicle unit in the army have the Scouts rule

Giving a Dread a 4++, RA 11 and venerable is just going to be a little ridiculous. It will be stupidly hard to kill.
Does normal Dreadnought options include a Drop Pod?

Yes every dread has the possibility to take a pod, but I agree with you, Decios staline would be nearly impossible to kill. The first thing I would cut, would be the armor-upgrades. I mean a venni don't get additional armor-plates just because he is older. He gets his special rule. If you want to include both the inv and venerable make the inv 5++ not more. Even then he is as durable as a Land Raider. Also you should include the special rule from Bjorn where he gets an objective if he dies.

I would make him 250.

Those are the Stats for a Contemptor (just messed with a bit) and they're 180ish. It's fine.

The 4+ save seems alright. Make it obscured instead of Invul, though. Make it like a personal KFF.

I would say give him only a few options to choose from, not the whole kitten kabootle. Like a Lascannon, Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannon, Extra Armor, and Drop Pod.

Independent character vehicle... Not really going to work. A Leadership/Stubborn/Fearless bubble is fine, though. It's just going to be an absolute pain to deal with it in the shooting phase.

It shouldn't have the "Living Relic" rule as Bjorn, as Bjorn is 10,000+ years old, and this guy would probably be younger.

Is 'Living Relic' really justified by his age? I have never read it myself, but i would think that its not the age but the importance he has to his brothers and such a dreadnought could exist in every chapter.

No, not with current codex: because people don't need another way to squeeze two more riflemen dreads into their lists...



With some reworking of their role/importance in thei codex/army list maybe:

I think ALL dreads should be equal to the current venerables and be allowed as an HQ or elite and they should have an 0-1 limit tbh.

They should also become an extra objective when they are taken out.

Thanks for the feedback guys; this was really my first attempt at something new.

Question: What are the rules for the Contemptor?

And with my example, take away R 11 and replace with 10. Add some rule that clearly benefits the enemy once taken out. (besides just wiping out points and such.)

Replace 4++ with smoke launchers? and 5++ save instead.


Basically, what Chowderhead and CT Gamer said would be reasonable I suppose.