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This'll be my next little project, right after I win something with my pod army. (this is next mostly because it requires me to paint almost nothing)

 

Master, terminator armor and claws 4 man command squad with 2 cannons, furious charge, chainfist and an auspex

Epistolary, terminator armor, fury and fear, 4 man command squad with 2 cannons, furious charge, and an auspex

6 elites devs, 3 missile launchers, tank hunters

8 elites devs, 3 heavy bolters, plasma cannon, infiltration

4X5 las/plas

tornado

3 whirlwinds

Thoughts? What, besides pods (haha!) will give me problems?

Based on other Dakka discussion, I reckon you'll achieve some of the lowest comp scores ever but kill everyone in sight! :-D

you'll achieve some of the lowest comp scores ever

This will be nothing new for me. I find it encouraging when I beat someone so badly that they feel they need to take it out on my scores.

It's all about having fun, and getting people that tweeked up is fun!

Guard drop troops would give you a run, also any army the deep strikes (if the rules allow it), but I'm sure you figured that since you said Pods and Pods are drop.  The 4 Defiler, 9 Oblit IW army could make things sticky since you're indirect fire can't even scratch a Defiler.

I'd have a hard time imagining how drop guard would be a problem, except perhaps in escallation, but even then I'm not convinced. It's still a shooty marine list.

I've played against the 9 oblit, 4 heavy army a bunch of times. It's just tough no matter what you bring. But you can't win them all.

I thought you were opposed to people fielding the plasma cannon. does it fill a particular role for it's price?

It's nice just to discourage the occasional deep strikers. I'm sure I'll roll a 1 to hit when the deep strikers come in, but hopefully it'll make people think hard before they set them down.

What doctrines/drawbacks?

And why the odd number squads? I would think even would be better in almost all circumstances.

And personally, I would go with Assault squads. Drop the template on the enemy, assault. Every time they consolidate, BOOM! When they flee, BOOM! When they Massacre move, BOOM!.

I'd have a hard time imagining how drop guard would be a problem, except perhaps in escallation, but even then I'm not convinced. It's still a shooty marine list.

Something that dropps massive numbers would do the trick. The list I posted a while back had 2x command squads, 3x vet squads, and 2x special weapon squads dropping in. Can't say it's win for sure but it'd probably make a game of it (especially when I add in infiltrate to win the deployment game)

How are you going to play the minefields? Meaning, will you play that they cause pinning checks when they cause a wound? Will you play that they are Ordnance vs. vehicle hits? Will you play that minefields overlap and each cause a hit?

I ask because I know that in tournaments you'll run into people who will be quite opposed to any of these interpretations, especially if they play a non-MEQ army.

Just wondering. . .


And BTW, since I play all non-MEQ armies, remind me never to play you if you're going to use this list.

I play a similar army to this list except instead of the pair of terminator squads I field more tornados, an assault squad with a chaplain for counter-assault and a shooty master and command squad.

I find that the minefields are very good at controlling the pace and direction of the game against any army that wants to move. In one game against BT I ended up dropping something like 16 minefields before the game ended, and ended up popping rhinos, immobilizing a dread and otherwise wreaking havoc. I also find the versatility and cheapness of the whirlwind to be awesome and underappreciated.

Personally I have found the toughest armies to face are other stand back and shoot armies like IG or IW. With the expensive (and fragile given the preponderance of AP2 weapons) terminators, I don't think you have enough models or saves to handle an uber shooty MEQ army or optimized IG list. I would trade the terminators for more bodies and possibly an assault squad (or some other counter-assault unit). Plus it would give you points to beef up your tactical squads or add more shooty.

--- as for minefields and yak's comments - they say NOTHING about causing pinning, they don't count as ordnance or any of that. Remember the different missiles are different WEAPONS and the rules that apply to a Barrage Ordnance weapon like the shooty whirlwind missile don't count on the minefields or vice versa. At least there is nothing in the rules that GIVE the Castellan missiles these attributes, so why would you apply them? As far as I play em, they operate JUST as the codex states... As for overlaps... I say why not... both templates are down... so why WOULDN'T they both count? Hmmm... but there's NOTHING in the rules to explain how templates that remain in play and static operate so we have nothing to go on except that one paragraph in the SM Codex.


--

Btw in the last tourney I was in I beat two other MEQ armies - a shooty marine list and a templars list, and was beaten by a Nightlords force (too many furies to stop and PISS POOR deployment on my part - allowed his infiltrators to be 18" away from my flank... sad really) and an IW force with a LOT of heavy bolters and an indirect defiler and a dakka pred - I was outshot and he made nearly every save I made him take, even the cover saves... sigh.

-Iron Father

Also WHY would anyone ding you for taking 3 whirlies????

- Do IG get knocked for typically fielding three russes? No... So why ding a template that is far less effective than either a battlecannon or earthshaker?

I don't see why you would get knocked for comp other than the min troops, but so what? Last tourney I was in didn't even use comp as such.

-Iron Father

I have played against the 2 whirlwind version of this army with my Black Legion demonbomb and my bikers were in close-combat with his army on turn 2 despite the fact that he backed into a corner.  I think most speed armies can get into combat before the whirlies have a chance to lay down an effective barrier.

Darrian

I think your main problem could be the mission. It's a very solid list (as usual) but I am curious about your answers to yakface questions.

Will you post some batreps about your Pod army (and what did you came up with in the end)?

It's the 4 x min las/plas squads that people will knock him for.

I'd love to play against this with my IG just to see how few were left at the end!

How are you going to play the minefields? Meaning, will you play that they cause pinning checks when they cause a wound? Will you play that they are Ordnance vs. vehicle hits? Will you play that minefields overlap and each cause a hit?

Mine fields aren't ordnance and don't pin. But each field does cause it's own damage, so if two overlap you check twice.

I don't want to bring it up here because it has been rehashed numerous times but I just wanted to add a reminder that not everyone plays minefields that way- so don't expect consistency amongst all players.  My area doesn't allow stacking of minefields because we use physical templates to represent the fields and if you put one on top of the other, then the models are only directly on one template.

There is no basis for this in the RAW, just how we play it.  But that lack of consistency is a good enough reason to not use 3 whirlwind armies at tournaments outside of your regular gaming area as it can have an enormous effect on the game.

Interestingly, we never considered minefields counting as ordnance weapons (as in pinning units when wounding).  I'll have to ask what the group thinks of this.

- Oaka

Well, I wouldn't object to that as a regional house rule.

And I don't think it's going to have a huge impact anyway.

I feel the urge to point out that a Tank Shock will trigger any mines the unit is over once just by virtue of the shock, and then can trigger them a second time if the unit falls back...

Not a whole lot of room for tanks in the list, though.

Along those lines, pile in moves are not optional, so any assault option you put in the list gets to take advantage of the minefields -- causing minefield hits every assault phase due to pile in moves and otherwise tying up the unit (and causing more minefield hits if the unit breaks).  Shouldn't need anything tooled out to dish out a lot of carnage in assault, just need to get in there and get extra minefield triggers out of it.

A decent use for Castellan Missiles if going Vs Pod lists would be to plant minefields at the minimum range allowed for Whirlwinds, so to form a defensive minefield perimeter___considering that Pod lists rely on Rapid Fire and short-ranged weapons to cave one's cranium, they'll either drop on the mines or just outside, where they can only use Assault Cannons and less numerous 24" Bolter volleys. The best part is that you're immune to your own mines! What a h00t!

Oh yeah... forgot that those Pods can deploy really near :S .... Maybe swapping a few Dev squads for Furious Charging Assault squads with Lightning Claws for this match-up?

OK, so I've won something with my pod army, so now it's time to put this together.

Question: this is obviously a low comp army, but is it a zero comp army?

I don't think so, but the WW trick combined with the four little Tac squads means it might happen against the wrong opponent. If it were me I'd find a way to get some more variety into the Troops section.

One possible way might be mini assault scouts. That ties in with the idea of not needing to do much damage, just tie things up for the mines to put some hurt on.

May even make scout bikers a worthwhile choice.

I'm beginning to think that I have an extremely unique view on composition.  Normally I don't like the composition of your lists, Mauleed, but I don't have a problem with this one at all.  Why?

1.  You have a chapter master as the second HQ rather than another librarian clone.

2.  The list doesn't seem as tooled up against MEQs as other shooty marine lists.  The whirlwinds take AP 3 weaponry out of the army.

3.  Only one landspeeder, or as I call them, yet-another-way-to-get-an-assault-cannon-hovering-vehicles.

Heck, if you painted this army up as Imperial Fists, it would actually be fluffy.  I would imagine horde armies would ding you just out of spite though, as they get srewed from the onset in any non-escalation games.  But if those whirlwinds come in from reserve, they're not firing for half the game.  At the point they do come in, most hordes should already be in combat.  Why do people think this army has poor comp again?

- Oaka

Why do people think this army has poor comp again?

Five-man las/plas Tactical squads plus what's basically five Heavy Support choices (two Devastator Squads plus three Whirlwinds).

I realize that the last objection is brutally unfair - the whole POINT of a trait that allows you to take Devastators as Elites is that you can take other Heavy Support choices. But this is comp, not "fair." When people see three Whirlwinds plus two Devastator squads, most of them will think "how the heck did he get five HS slots?", and that's going to rankle.

Personally, I think the list is funky in a good way. It's different, and different gets a lot of style points in my book.  Mauleed, I suggest you call them the Imperial Warriors of Iron.

A maaster is a great benefit for this list and much better than a second librarian. If you have more than 4 squads and not more than 1-2 VetSarges a master should be considered, the Ld10 Thing is just plain good.

In my book the list is not a zero (this is reserved for 3x3 oblits, siren or the Khorne DP ) but it would come close to it. It's a very annoying list for the opponent because he just gets shot down (exept necrons). But it provides a challenge to beat it (I guess I would go for a draw ).

I'd give this army a mid comp score. There's some redundancy but there is also a variety of units. A typical "shooty" list.

chaoskas: What's zero comp about a Khorne DP?

A T6, W4, Sv2+/5+ with additional 4+ modell which doesn't die to anything short of a Railgun for under 200p and is fast as hell?  Back it you with some supporting units and he gets really annoying.  I guess he can even sit in front of mauleed marines and has a reliable chance to survive.

But the worst part is, that the player tend to "forget" to roll for Bloodrage or use Bloodrage and fleet of foot for a whooping 20-30" assault move (nearly all tourney organizers prevent this but some don't).