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Right, so it would seem as though there's really no point in having a marine based navy in a time where the Navy usually means interstellar space travel, but has there ever been accounts of good ole' fashion water platformed combat in the lore? I mean, what happens when there's a waterworld at stake, is it all just fought over in space? Or do some of the factions maintain these types of navies for these worlds? If so, where are they made? On the planet in question? Dropped from the Space Navy in the sky?

Thoughts? Comments? Wishes?

You might find some traditional naval warfare in the 40k universe on undeveloped worlds but I don't think the 'modern' Imperium have any ocean-going assets.

I think one of the Gaunt's Ghosts books dealt with an IG assault on a planet that was essentially a water world (boiling oceans of sulfur or some such). There used everything from Lightnings to Marauders to Troop Landers to giant Blimps. I think with the anti-gravity and VTOL technology they would just hover over an actual water world and dominate any actual naval force.

DoW

I doubt the Imperium would need a full blown navy. With the rarities of these battles I don't think anyone would need a navy.

I the book helsreach the orks assault the city docks by using submarines to avoid detection.

I think there was a redonculous underwater fight in one story or another between SM and Tau (or maybe Eldar).

I'll see if i can find it.

Ascalam wrote:I think there was a redonculous underwater fight in one story or another between SM and Tau (or maybe Eldar).

I'll see if i can find it.

Tau seem like they would like a good underwater fight. Most of their stuff is pretty fishy-sounding anyway.

DoW

I was thinking about a concept like this, a fan-made Imperial Guard regiment called the New Atlantis (their world) Naval Infantry.

Basically the planet is 99% ocean but is rich in undersea resources, so the population lives on gigantic city-wide drilling rigs. The planets Guard forces learned that in the absence of rare anti-grav technology, hovering aircraft like Valkyries could only go so far and developed a series of fast-patrol boats/gunboats that resemble riverine attack craft from Vietnam and D-Day style landing craft bristling with Storm Bolters/Heavy Bolters/Lascannons/Autocannons. Their main weapon however are submersible attack craft equipped with heavier weapons like a Battle Cannons and the like. The planet is also riddled with "Floating Fortresses" (the kind of naval fortress seen in the novel 1984). New Atlantis Regiments specialize in naval warfare, undersea warfare, and amphibious landings.

As for their enemies, I had two in mind. Namely a water-obsessed Ork Warboss who and constructs "G-Boats", waging a submarine war against the merchant shipping (the G-boats can also surface to shoot down Transport and Merchant spacecraft as they leave for orbit with sea-to-air torpedoes). The head Ork Warboss operates from a massive 30,000 ton Submarine that has claimed hundreds of ships for years. New Atlantis Regiments fight against the G-Boat packs on a regular basis. Another threat in the past came from the Tyranids, where they fought aquatic tyranids as the Hive Mind adapted to the worlds environment. It basically became a battle against sea monsters.


I'd convert Guard into the concept if I wasn't so bad at converting and knew where to start,

In one of stories from the Sabbat Worlds book Chaos forces on some planet (cant remember the name) launch air attacks on imperial air bases from a submersible aircraft carrier.

Ascalam wrote:I think there was a redonculous underwater fight in one story or another between SM and Tau (or maybe Eldar).

I'll see if i can find it.

the one between the space marine and the tyranids in the second book of the second BA omnibus?


Naval would be the exception and not the rules.

Unless the planet already has such assets or the needs to have boats/subs comes around for some odd reason, the guards probably avoid the see like nurgle plague.
Its different kind of warfare that require specialise training and equipment that on top of that is mostly made useless with air power and space cruisers.

Not that one, though i think i remember reading it.

It was between environment-sealed tanks on both sides.

Found it: 966 M 41:

Wolf Lord Gunnar Red Moon takes battle to the Tau's hidden underwater cities on the Ocean World Kvariam Alpha, driving Land Raiders straight across the seabed. The Tau flee when the Wolves crack the domes of their cities. - Codex SW.

Land Raiders under the sea... Interesting.

The book "Flesh and Iron" has rebels controlling the main island of aplanet and the imperium has to launch attacks from a naval fleet. The rebels also control a massive cannon that sinks ships when ever they get too close. It happens several times with massive casualities.

eviltrout wrote:The book "Flesh and Iron" has rebels controlling the main island of aplanet and the imperium has to launch attacks from a naval fleet. The rebels also control a massive cannon that sinks ships when ever they get too close. It happens several times with massive casualities.

yeah half naval and river/jungle forces

There is a story in one of the Tyrannid books about a water borne vessel during an invasion. The crew hear things rattling against the hull and experience the spore laden rain.

Presumably shipping is still an inexpensive way to cart goods around large Earth like planets.

I see no reason why the Imperium wouldn't have water borne combat vessels on some planets.

These guys would like a word

The Flesh and Iron book details several water based war ships.
Its been a while since i read it so here goes.

smaller river attack craft (i can't remmber if they had a name to it)

the "Orca" Gunboat, which was akin to a large patrol boat with serious heavy weapons on board (like auto cannons, heavy bolters and naval battle cannons), used to patrol mouths of rivers and protect the much larger ships.

There is mention of a Battleship used by Command as an HQ. Its discribed as a gigantic ship with meters thick hull (that required a rebel boat packed with explosives to breach), its design would be a hybrid between a WW2 Battleship (Giant deck guns and all) and the standard Imperial designs and increase the size ten fold.

Another is a immense aircraft carrier that could carry hundreds of aircraft (lightnings, thunderbolts, marauders you name it!!). The ship is not sunk but its said to be miles across.

Other ships are mentioned and fall prey to the massive guns that the rebels have control of (the shells of the guns are giant 1000+mm rocket shells allegedly and can blast apart the ships in a single shot, so the guns themselves dwarf the largest real world cannon, the 800mm Gustav/Dora cannon, and are able to be wheeled out of their bunker complex, fire, and be moved back into cover before relatiation can be taken). these ships are likly multiple different classes (cruisers, destroyers and so on).

The Gorgon, and CHimera are probly used as landing craft (like the D-Day landing craft, heck the Gorgon is a super sized one with tracks and armor used on land) and both are amphibious.


As for purpose built Wet Navy, there is little mention of them (besides the above in Flesh and Iron) but planets being very different from each other, the imperium likly has a Wet navy (with a few specialized spacecraft to transport them) kept somewhere until needed. Flesh and Iron mut have had to use the wet navy due to the massive cannons the rebels had. I can't remember if its mentioned if it was tried, but should a space bound landing craft had come down the guns could have blasted it out of the sky (the troops were landed by smaller boats the cannons could not hit).


As for Wet Navy combat, i can't find mention of it. But with 40k tech, you can imagine a giant super sized WW2 battleship combat with energy weapons and large caliber weapons being used, it would be a interesting battle to watch!

This gets asked about once a month on the board. As already said there are fluff examples of naval combat.

Tyranids who invade a planet will invade its oceans as well. In a fluff piece about an invasionof a IoM world it tells how the PDF have submersible combat vehicules which get destroyed.

Orks have used submersible vehicules to perform raids.

The IG's Chimera is an aquatic capable vehicule.

Space marine power armour is capable of underwater use, as is the majority of their vehicules.

There was an old Heresy Era Army submersible in the novel 'Black Tide'.

I doubt the IG does much for naval vessels or submersibles the way modern navies do because it would be hard to transport ships hundreds of feet long. Not impossible, mind, just difficult. It would be kind of on the scale of deploying Titans or Leviathans or Capitol Imperialis. Moreover, when you have access to drop ships and any sort of air transport (which the Guard should have, either through PDFs if its a garrison force, or via the navy if they'rve been transported there) sea travel becomes somewhat less important.

I imagine that most wet-navy forces in the Imperium are PDF based (like much of their aeronautical forces that aren't under Navy control.) If for some reason they need them they probably either conscript what they need and transport it as needed. It's not impossible however that they have some 'specialized' wet-navy guard forces (same way they have specialist air force regiments like the Phantine or drop troops) but they would also be correspondingly rare.

We had this thread a few months back, and I think it was determined that, by and large, a hydro-naval power immediately loses when it comes to fighting the Imperial Navy, who will just destroy the ships (and ports) from orbit.

In the event that the IG needs to deploy by boats (for whatever reason), it was determined that either they will take control of local ships (if present) or the Mechanicus will bring along a Manufactorum vessel to build a warship(s) on site and then drop it by bulk lifter (the same ones they lift Titans back into orbit with) to deploy it on the planet's oceans.

I haven't read them in a long time so I might be wrong here, but I think one of the Soul Drinkers novels talks about a naval fight. The Soul Drinkers (if memory serves right) launched an attack from a few scavenged boats on an island filled with nurgle cultists and daemons.

Other than that, I don't think naval warfare has much of a place in 40K.

DemetriDominov wrote:Land Raiders under the sea... Interesting.

Under the sea
Under the sea
Darling it's better
Down where it's wetter
Take it from me
Up on the shore they work all day
Out in the sun they slave away
While we devotin'
Full time to floatin'
Under the sea

And on a more serious note, I like that idea someone voiced about an atlantean guard regiment, sounds like they'd look pretty good. And on a world which was ridiculously over-watered (as worlds seem to be in 40k, all ice, all desert, all jungle, etc) then it would make a certain amount of sense to have boats, enemy would probably struggle to land on the ground parts since they'd be so small and well defended, so they would land boats further out, and then assault in. I guess.

I believe that space marines can fight underwater and even their tanks work down there. Kinda silly as underwater is an inward pressure, whereas space is an outward pressure, but hey whatever, they're Space Marines!

Likely water worlds are actually pretty common in 40k. But I imagine giant ships/floating platforms are not rare either, and used as a substitute for land by the inhabitants of the planet.

DogOfWar wrote:You might find some traditional naval warfare in the 40k universe on undeveloped worlds but I don't think the 'modern' Imperium have any ocean-going assets.

I think one of the Gaunt's Ghosts books dealt with an IG assault on a planet that was essentially a water world (boiling oceans of sulfur or some such). There used everything from Lightnings to Marauders to Troop Landers to giant Blimps. I think with the anti-gravity and VTOL technology they would just hover over an actual water world and dominate any actual naval force.

DoW

That book was Guns of Tanith, iirc and it was Phantine, no oceans but the toxic and corrosive atmosphere below a certain height made it an Air travel only planet. There was also a short story in Ghostmaker, that had an assault on a mostly water planet, though the assault itself was at a chain of islands, with air transports acting as landing craft, flying and landing troops on the shoreline.

An ocean itself wouldn't offer much strategical value, the value would lie in fixed positions like oil rigs and island chains etc etc. And those would be most likely assaulted by airborne forces better than they would naval forces, as its much quicker.