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So I'm pretty new to fantasy and would like a little advice on building up a list. I got a great deal on some models so I have a bunch. Here is a list of everything I own and was wondering what sort of list I could make from these guys plus what would be good to add.

Malus Darkblade
Lokhir fellheart
sorceress on a cold one
sorceress
supreme sorceress

20 RXB
10 spear men
70 unbuilt dark elf warriors
20 corsairs w/handbows
5 knights
hydra
10 shades

The list I'm thinking of working towards is:

Supreme Sorceress
Level 4
Seal of Ghrond
Sacrificial Dagger

Battle Standard Bearer
Cold One

Cauldron of Blood

Dark Elf Warriors
x50
Shields

Repeater Crossbowmen
x10
Shields
Musician

Repeater Crossbowmen
x10
shields
Musician

Repeater Crossbowmen
x10
shields
Musician

Repeater Crossbowmen
x10
shields
Musician

Repeater Crossbowmen
x10
shields
Musician

Corsairs
x30 all with hand bows
full command
pair of hand bows

Cold One knights
x5
Full Command
Ring of Hotek

Black Guards
x15
Full command

Hydra

I'm new to fantasy and dark elves as well, so take my advice with a pinch of salt.

First and foremost, your battle standard bearer should be with the cauldron.

After that, you might want a smallish (15-20) unit of warriors to put the sacrificial sorceress in.

I've been told corsairs are much better without the handbows.

Not sure if fifteen black guard are worth taking. That is probably not enough bodies to stand up to any kind of prolonged combat.

Best of luck with your army!

1) A proper army list must state which lore of magic the casters are using.

2) The only purpose for a Battle Standard on a Cold One is if you are running a big block of COK (10+) and you want to give them the Hydra Banner. Aside from that or a Death Hag BSB to boost Executioners - ASF is the favorite, but I've gotten some interesting results giving her the Hydra Banner - the Cauldron Death Hag should always be your BSB.

3) 50 Warriors is a main combat block and needs Full Command. If you are running Spearmen this big, I'd drop the Sac Dagger for a Dispel Scroll. A Sac Dagger battery is best served by 15-20 Spearmen, no shields, champion to take challenges, musician, and standard ONLY if the Sorceress is your general - in which case the Standard of Discipline is well worth the extra cost.

4) 10 Repeater Crossbows are NOT a combat block and shouldn't be pretending to be one. Dump the shields. 20+, then they become a combat block and shields (plus full command) become viable. For two turns they shoot, then on turn 3 they reform to 5 wide and move in to engage the enemy.

5) There are people that swear by handbow Corsair blocks... I am not one of them. However, it is worth trying to see how well they work for you. Give them the Sea Serpent Standard to help make up for their lack of attacks. Heck, a big unit of Corsairs like this should probably ALWAYS have the Sea Serpent Standard. They'll shred most core infantry effortlessly, and with Killing Blow from the Cauldron they'll take Knights - even Chaos Knights - apart. And then there's always Mindrazor...

6) 5 Cold One Knights is a harrassing unit, not so much a main combatant. Give them a musician and let them protect your flanks. Full command, much less the magical toys that come with it, are less useful than extra bodies until you reach about 10 strong. At that point the ASF banner becomes a very nice thing to have, as well as something like the Crimson Death.

7) Black Guard do not do well in extended combats, period. But then, neither do any of our infantry; we are just too delicate. On the other hand, 5-10 Black Guard with musicians just dandy as a speed bump and redirector - that'll shred the tires of the unit that runs over it. 10 Witches with musicians do the same.

8) The problem with one hydra anymore is that it tends to drop dead from cannonball poisoning (or other heavy shooting) without doing anything other than absorbing fire. So, plan for this and make use of it, to get the REST of your army across the board intact while your hydra draws fire. Then if it DOES get into combat, it's a bonus!

9) You lack maneuver control units. This is important, because Dark Elves are just a bit too frail to charge across the field and sweep the enemy aside. You need to be able to dictate who engages what on YOUR terms. Units of 5 harpies, 5 shades with extra hand weapons, and 5 Dark Riders (with or without crossbows) with musician all serve this purpose. Learn the tactics of the speed bump, the redirect, the bait-and-flee, and other tricks of maneuver to ensure you engage the enemy on YOUR terms, and not HIS.

10) Druchii.net. Check it out. Lots more advice there.

Drop seal of Grond for pendant. Or some other ward save on your level 4.

If you have that many crossbows, stick them into 1 unit and take a level 2 with the guiding eye.

The full command on your warriors has already been mentioned.

Handbows are average. Extra hand weapons are infinitely better

Cold one Knights aren't worth it unless you commit to the unit fully IMO. That would be 10+

Black Guard aren't worth it. I used to run black guard. I have since decided that 40 executioners and a cauldron of blood are a more viable option. Either take the cauldron as your BSB or a death hag BSB with the ASF banner. I like to add manbane and rune of khaine.

Oh yeah, Harpies. And maybe shades.

First of all you need to beef your units up. My Beastmen would shred so smal units in no time, secondly the list needs to contain the correct ponit value and such. The third is regarding the BSB do as others posted have suggested

does this look like a better list?
Supreme Sorceress 360
lvl 4, pendant of khaeleth, crown of command, seal of ghrond, lore of shadows

Sorceress 175
lvl 2, sacrificial dagger, dispell scroll, lore of fire

Deathhag 225
couldren of blood, battle standard bearer

Spearmen 313
x40 full command, shields, standard of disciapline

Crossbowmen 240
x20 full command, shields

Crossbowmen 240
x20 full command, shields

Crossbowmen 240
x20 full command, shields

Corsairs 220
x20 full command

shades 128
x8

war hydra 175

war hydra 175

2493

The level 4 is ok. If she is going in the big block o' spears she doesn't need the stubborn hat too much as they will likely be steadfast.

Personally, I think those 60 crossbows are too much. Drop it to ~30 and a level 2 with guiding eye. If you do take them

Whilst I do like lore of fire, I have been looking at metal more and more due to the +1 to hit, -1 weapon skill and the -1 armour save spells

20 Corsairs aren't really gonna cut it. They work really well in a block of 30 with the frenzy banner. 20 at this points level will be too small considering they are one of your only combat blocks.

You haven't got any specials bar shades. Most of the dark elf combat units are specials.

1 hydra should cut it IMO, if you take any.

Just to inform you, your level 2 should be 185 and your cauldron should be 200.

No, the cauldron is right on. He made it the BSB, that's why it's 225.

A few more pointers:

The Sacrifical Dagger can be used once per spell. So you get more mileage out of it on a higher-level caster who has more spells. Aside from that, Shadow has a pretty high average casting cost; the bonus dice will make a big difference. The down side is, if you make maximum use of the dagger, that block of 40 will be down to 30 by the time they get to close combat.

By the way... the Seal of Ghrond and the Pendant of Khaeleth are both talismans. The SS can't have both.

As much as I love my RXBs, you've got way too many. Too many points in core overall. DE Core is not bad... but it's not the combat specialists that your special troops are. Double Hydra won't make up for their lack. And crossbows, while nice, have a seriously hard time doing significant damage to anything heavily armored or T4+. They shine at removing enemy maneuver control units (scouts, fast cav, and other such small units), allowing your own maneuver control to dictate the pace of the battle. They also do well going into a combat on the second or third turn, preferably from the flank. They add ranks to the combat, and might even bust steadfast a turn earlier than our main combatants would on their own. But to do this, you need main combatants - Frenzied Corsairs, Witches, Black Guard, Cold One Knights/Chariots, or A Big Block of Executioners.

The obvious place to cut back is the spearmen; even 40 won't do much except hold a couple turns, then die. On the flip side, the corsairs need more bodies. And the Sea Serpent Standard. Trust me on this one, the difference between 2 and 3 attacks is huge!

I've become fond of using units of 10 Witches with musicains as speed bumps... that'll shred the tires of whatever runs over them. Against most units, a couple Witches will survive, and if they are in range of the Cauldron BSB they will most likely hold them a round... setting you up for a wicked flank charge if you've done it right.

Thank you all for your advice, I have been thinking about what you guys have said and came up with this:

Supreme Sorceress 320
lvl 4, pendant of khaeleth, sacrificial dagger, lore of shadows

Sorceress 185
lvl 2, dispell scroll, guiding eye, lore of fire

Deathhag 200
couldren of blood

master 214
lance, heavy armour, shield, seadragon cloak
cold one, battle stanard bearer, hydra banner

Spearmen 383
x50 full command, shields, standard of disciapline

Crossbowmen 350
x30 full command, shields

Cold one knights 370
x10 full command, standard of slaughter, ring of hotek (or death piercer)

shades 128
x8

war hydra 175
war hydra 175

If i were to remove the cauldron of blood I would add in some corsairs and maybe harpies or dark riders for the points as some speed bumps. Thoughts, comments, criticism?

Drop a hydra and take a 20 man block of warriors with no upgrades, or maybe a musician if you want the sacrificial dagger. That 50 man block is no way suitable for a sacrificial bunker. That way you can get 5 harpies too if you take 20 vanilla spears with no upgrades.

LordRogalDorn wrote:Thank you all for your advice, I have been thinking about what you guys have said and came up with this:

Supreme Sorceress 320
lvl 4, pendant of khaeleth, sacrificial dagger, lore of shadows
Looks good.

Sorceress 185
lvl 2, dispell scroll, guiding eye, lore of fire
Also looks good, dark magic is also a good choice here

Deathhag 200
couldren of blood
Spend the 25 points to make this your BSB. There is no reason not to.

master 214
lance, heavy armour, shield, seadragon cloak
cold one, battle stanard bearer, hydra banner
Drop this guy as your CoB will be the BSB. This frees up a lot of points to spend elsewhere.

Spearmen 383
x50 full command, shields, standard of disciapline
Spearmen are usually only good for Sacrificing. Drop them to 20-25 with just a musician.

Crossbowmen 350
x30 full command, shields
Take 2 units of 20 with shields and standard/mus. Champions are a waste here. Shoot for 2 turns then reform into 5x4 and you have the most survivable infantry in the army.

Cold one knights 370
x10 full command, standard of slaughter, ring of hotek (or death piercer)
A lot of points in one little unit(just my opinion). They are a force to be reckoned with though.

shades 128
x8
Take XHW on these. Also run at least 2 units of 5 if not more. By using smaller units you are able to split their fire across several units. 2 units of 10 is nice.

war hydra 175
war hydra 175
2 hydras are overkill. One is plenty to keep your enemies ranged attacks focused on it while your other units move up.

Using the points you free up by dropping a hydra and the Master, you can take 5 harpies and some black guard(easily the best infantry we have). Give them Banner of Murder and watch the fun.


If i were to remove the cauldron of blood I would add in some corsairs and maybe harpies or dark riders for the points as some speed bumps. Thoughts, comments, criticism?

I'm not much of a fan of the cauldron bsb, That is mainly due to the fact that my executioners need the standard of hag graef to maximise their damage output. But if you run stuff like witch elves or knights the cauldron will be better.

Also, I will have to disagree with Aerathan in a way. looking at statlines then yes I agree, but overall I find that the unit cap kinda makes them pale in comparison to a nice horde o' witches/executioners.

If your Exectioners need the ASF Hag to be useful, you're not running enough of them. 40 is a bare minimum, 50 is optimal. At that point, it's pretty much impossible for anything to kill enough of them for them NOT to eviscerate the unit in return.

You need to get away from the ASF Hag. Sooner or later someone is going to get smart and execute her in the first round - T3/5++ save is not even a DE's idea of durable - and then your too-small unit of Executioners will be the ones getting executed.

I run 40 executioners. And if you read what I said, the standard will maximise their damage output. I.E. striking at initiative 5. With great weapons.

Yeah, I5 Great Weapons are nasty. Against a competent opponent, it falls flat. I'd thow a disposable unit at that Hag. Say, a speedbump favorite of mine, 10 Witches. 12 S3 poison attacks have a pretty good chance of doing her in, and netting the 180 VP... as well as throwing a big wrench in your plans by leaving your Executioners back where they started - striking last.

Played against a chaos player recently with that hag. SHE DIDN'T DIE! Even with me deciding that the extra attack looked better than the 5+ ward.....And she didn't die is capitalized due to the fact that I am cheering.

LordRogalDorn wrote:Thank you all for your advice, I have been thinking about what you guys have said and came up with this:

Supreme Sorceress 320
lvl 4, pendant of khaeleth, sacrificial dagger, lore of shadows
Try and keep mages cheap and cheerful, she doesn't need pendant, your mage should never in the position to need the ward save

Sorceress 185
lvl 2, dispell scroll, guiding eye, lore of fire
looks pretty solid, dark magic is also a good support lore

Deathhag 200
couldren of blood
she should be your bsb if you take a bsb

master 214
lance, heavy armour, shield, seadragon cloak
cold one, battle stanard bearer, hydra banner
you can keep this guy if you really want to, (without bsb upgrade, as stated earlier) the master in full mundane, will really help the CoKs especially with his Ld 9

Spearmen 383
x50 full command, shields, standard of disciapline
this unit is a mixed bunch, it wants to get into combat and provide its rank and banner bonus to the CoKs and Hydras but with the SoD in it, it really wants your sorc lord to sit in it and give your army Ld 10, I would drop the standard

Crossbowmen 350
x30 full command, shields
solid

Cold one knights 370
x10 full command, standard of slaughter, ring of hotek (or death piercer)
imo, spellthieving sword is better anti-mage than the Ring in a unit of CoK but YMMV with that one, other wise looks solid

shades 128
x8
since you have 10 shade models, with the points you have saved on your master bsb (since the Hag shouldn't take a magic banner with the cauldron) you should be able to and will be better served by 2 units of 5 shades

war hydra 175
war hydra 175
two war hydras is very good (some people refuse to play against others because of it) being able to double as great units up the flanks and fire-magnets, (the more shots into the T5 Hydra with 4+ scaly skin and regen(4+), the less into fragile, T3 Druchii)

If i were to remove the cauldron of blood I would add in some corsairs and maybe harpies or dark riders for the points as some speed bumps. Thoughts, comments, criticism?

My above advice should hold true for competitive lists, but in the end, if you want a for funsies list, than by all means go all in for funsies, in the end its what you want and no-one else.

The main reason I'm going with the pendent of the Sorceress is because of miss casts, and Another reason I'm putting a lot of points, at least for now, in the knights is so that I don't have to buy as many models right now to make the list.

LordRogalDorn wrote:The main reason I'm going with the pendent of the Sorceress is because of miss casts, and Another reason I'm putting a lot of points, at least for now, in the knights is so that I don't have to buy as many models right now to make the list.

Honestly, you will not miscast that often, about once every other game or so, not worth it enough to buy protection imo and even than its really on when you 5-6 dice the big spells that you want to get off anyway and that once you get them off, you don't need to worry about magic anymore because you just heavily shifted the game in your favour.

Still, if you want the pendant on your wizard, than put the pendant on your wizard by all means, just putting in my $0.02

Krellnus wrote:

LordRogalDorn wrote:The main reason I'm going with the pendent of the Sorceress is because of miss casts, and Another reason I'm putting a lot of points, at least for now, in the knights is so that I don't have to buy as many models right now to make the list.

Honestly, you will not miscast that often, about once every other game or so, not worth it enough to buy protection imo and even than its really on when you 5-6 dice the big spells that you want to get off anyway and that once you get them off, you don't need to worry about magic anymore because you just heavily shifted the game in your favour.

Still, if you want the pendant on your wizard, than put the pendant on your wizard by all means, just putting in my $0.02

If you aren't miscasting with your Dark Elf Sorceress then you aren't using enough dice

I miscast once every game with my level 4. But hey, At least okkams casts successfully.