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I don't know what happened to the other topic I posted, but I'll post it again...

Necrons seem to have two types of army that come from SC:

Imotekh seems to favor fast CC units that can take advantage of the long Night Fight effects.

and

Orikan who has Tremortech synergy with C'tan and Tremorstaves.

But what goes into these armies?

I think Imotekh's army would have very little long range shooting and would have a fair amount Wraiths and Scarabs, where as Orikan's army would have at maximum 4 Tremorstaves with Warriors, a C'tan with Worldwrithe and some hefty long range shooting.

Have I got this all wrong?

no, that's about right.
the only issue facing each SC list would be that most opponents have realized they can thwart the majority of your plans if they just reserve everything (especially if Orikan is present)

Kool. But if they reserve everything and I've got everything on the board, that means I have a tactical advantage with their army arriving piecemeal?

Except that they can "walk" everything on the first turn(god thats annoying)

Puscifer wrote:Kool. But if they reserve everything and I've got everything on the board, that means I have a tactical advantage with their army arriving piecemeal?

It's not that simple.

You've given up a LOT of combat power to get that single turn. It's not that big a deal in and of itself, because he has five or six turns to recover. Armies as a matter of course reserve everything against gunlines with initiative, for instance. You have to make it work for you somehow. More than just going for objectives - you won't be able to hold them if you're on the short end of the stick in combat power.

The most obvious way to exploit an opponent's late entry is to run a scarab farm. Every turn he's not on the board, you get another 135 pts. of combat power uncontested. So, both these SC armies benefit from a scarab farm setup of some sort. And then, it's still not that simple. Because scarabs aren't a silver bullet, they have problems against a lot of different lists.

Another way to exploit it is to make him enter REALLY late. If you win the initiative, defer. If he chooses to reserve, you'll get two turns of spawning and two turns to occupy cover before the hammer falls, plus two turns of movement to get your tremorstaffs into position if you've gone that way.

And it's still not simple, just because you're going to have to make up a lot of ground in terms of fighting power.

So overall, Imotekh is better for a control list that keeps an opponent in the dark?

I mean with Solar Pulse Crypteks to increase the Night Shroud, then use some fast combat unit to fly in, then the turn before the assault, let all Hell loose with a torrent of fire, then assault.

Does the reserve problem effect Imotekh?

Exalted Pariah wrote:Except that they can "walk" everything on the first turn(god thats annoying)

Wait a sec, I thought anything not deployed was forced into reserve, and thus has to roll to come on from turn 2 onwards. Other than the dawn of war deployment, how can units just walk on turn 1?

Puscifer wrote:So overall, Imotekh is better for a control list that keeps an opponent in the dark?

I mean with Solar Pulse Crypteks to increase the Night Shroud, then use some fast combat unit to fly in, then the turn before the assault, let all Hell loose with a torrent of fire, then assault.

I apologize, I'm not following what it is you're asking here.

Does the reserve problem effect Imotekh?

An enemy reserving everything will affect an Imotekh list the same as it will any list, ie, gives another turn to prepare, but also deprives us of targets (in this case, for lightning b/c we don't have cross-table range firepower except for lightning.) Note that a Tremorcron list is also very likely an Imotekh list, btw. You're considering them separately, while they might not be separate things.

Thanks Randall, you've cleared that up for me a lot.

By control I meant the Necron army controls the pace of the game, not giving the opponent a chance to do anything with shooting.

So you'd put both Imotekh and Orikan in the same list?

<sigh> I don't know. That's what Norbu did with his. I don't use Orikan, and unless I've at least *tried* him, I'm a bad person to ask.

Problem is, there aren't a lot of people to ask.

I think those two types of armies are in the far minority, especially Tremorstaves. They are gimmicky and inaccurate, and are awful against a big weakness - long range powerful shooting like Long Fangs (who don't care about moving anyway).

Most armies fill up on Catacomb Command Barges and Annihilation Barges, then season with Warriors/Immortals and Scarabs/Wraiths to taste, along with Veil of Darkness Deathmarks, and use Solar Pulses for some limited night fighting.

Necrons are durable and adaptable, with their gauss weaponry easily glancing vehicles to slow down the enemy advance, and is solid anti-infantry with massed fire. 100 bolter or lasgun shots are no threat to a mechanized army, but Necrons are unique in that more basic shots increases their anti-infantry and anti-vehicle capacity. What they don't have is huge stopping power, so you need delaying tactics to whittle down your opponents force and let your defensive advantages come into play.

rubicant99 wrote:

Exalted Pariah wrote:Except that they can "walk" everything on the first turn(god thats annoying)

Wait a sec, I thought anything not deployed was forced into reserve, and thus has to roll to come on from turn 2 onwards. Other than the dawn of war deployment, how can units just walk on turn 1?

They can't - if he doesn't deploy and it's not Dawn of War, everything is in reserve.

Reserving works against Orikan because his mines are in effect only on the first turn. It does not work very well against Imotekh, especially if you buy him a chronotek or two to keep around the night and lightning.

Reserving against Imotekh dodges only one turn of electroshock, but allows for my scarabs and wraiths to advance into striking position without damage or resistance, while my spyders are churning out more scarabs. Please go ahead and reserve. We will kill you when you show up.

Saying that scarabs got problems and therefore it makes no difference how many turns you let them be farmed is plain wrong. 12 more scarabs each turn means 60 more attacks when the swarm hits you. There is nothing that would not mind 60 more entropic attacks, short of a T8 MC.

12 more scarabs each turn means 60 more attacks when the swarm hits you.

9 scarabs, 45 attacks...but it doesn't really change the point

Puscifer wrote:Kool. But if they reserve everything and I've got everything on the board, that means I have a tactical advantage with their army arriving piecemeal?

If you play it right the answer is yes. Necrons have that answer for you too.