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Question: would Zahndrekh be able to apply his Adaptive Tactics ability to a unit of Wraiths with a Necron Destroyer Lord attached for abilities such as Hit and Run, Furious Charge, Counter Attack, etc? The issue being that these are USR that do not apply when IC are attached.

Of course he can, and from what I see in the rulebook nothing states those USR's would be lost by the unit of wraiths just because the IC doesn't have them.

So you are saying a unit of Wraiths can hit and run, with a Lord attached?

If the Lord is attached when they're given the ability then he is given the ability as well because he's part of the unit. The only problem arises if only one of the IC or the unit has the rule. In this case both are given the rule so there's no conflict.

Question of my own here. I did this tonight actually. I had obyron and lychguard at the start of my turn, i see two units i want dead standing next to me. I give lychguard and obyron furious charge from zandrekh at the start of my turn. I then serperate them in my movement phase so that they may charge separate targets, both still having furious charge. Sound legal/legit to you guys? Would seem to work in the correct order of operations to me...

Dave-c wrote:Question of my own here. I did this tonight actually. I had obyron and lychguard at the start of my turn, i see two units i want dead standing next to me. I give lychguard and obyron furious charge from zandrekh at the start of my turn. I then serperate them in my movement phase so that they may charge separate targets, both still having furious charge. Sound legal/legit to you guys? Would seem to work in the correct order of operations to me...

Not legal. IC would not be member of the "chosen unit" anymore and thus would lose the rule.

Luide wrote:

Dave-c wrote:Question of my own here. I did this tonight actually. I had obyron and lychguard at the start of my turn, i see two units i want dead standing next to me. I give lychguard and obyron furious charge from zandrekh at the start of my turn. I then serperate them in my movement phase so that they may charge separate targets, both still having furious charge. Sound legal/legit to you guys? Would seem to work in the correct order of operations to me...

Not legal. IC would not be member of the "chosen unit" anymore and thus would lose the rule.

So too then would the lychguard.

NecronLord3 wrote:Question: would Zahndrekh be able to apply his Adaptive Tactics ability to a unit of Wraiths with a Necron Destroyer Lord attached for abilities such as Hit and Run, Furious Charge, Counter Attack, etc? The issue being that these are USR that do not apply when IC are attached.

This as always will be a contentious issue because the rules say that a unit doesn't pass on its special rules to joined ICs unless the rule specifically says they do.

However, the popular interpretation of this rule tends to allow that when a unit is granted the special rule from another source then the joined IC would benefit from it as he is part of the unit at that point. It is this train of thought that allows an IC to join Snikrot's unit and benefit from his Ambush special rule (which is FAQ'd by GW).

So in short, I do believe that an IC would definitely benefit from a special rule that was granted to the unit he was joined to by Zahndrekh.

Unit1126PLL wrote:

Luide wrote:

Dave-c wrote:Question of my own here. I did this tonight actually. I had obyron and lychguard at the start of my turn, i see two units i want dead standing next to me. I give lychguard and obyron furious charge from zandrekh at the start of my turn. I then serperate them in my movement phase so that they may charge separate targets, both still having furious charge. Sound legal/legit to you guys? Would seem to work in the correct order of operations to me...

Not legal. IC would not be member of the "chosen unit" anymore and thus would lose the rule.

So too then would the lychguard.

No, the lychguard were the target unit, and are still about.

The target united was Lychguard+IC. I would think either both new units loose the rule, or both keep it.

The target unit was a unit of lychguard, with an IC as a normal member of the unit (oage 49)

NecronLord3 wrote:So you are saying a unit of Wraiths can hit and run, with a Lord attached?

Yes, because the lord would have the rule as well if you apply it to the wraiths while the lord is attached.

Well, they can try and hit and run at least...at I2, good luck.

nosferatu1001 wrote:The target unit was a unit of lychguard, with an IC as a normal member of the unit (oage 49)

Hm, I thought it would be more logical than that, I.E.:

Unit A = Lychguard + IC
I = IC
L = Lychguard

Target Unit = Unit A = (I+L)

I != (I+L) provided L != 0 (it isn't). This is why Obyron loses the rule.

L != (I+L) provided I != 0 (it also isn't). This is identical in structure and meaning to the statement above, but is for some reason not applied. :/

But clearly logic isn't applied in this case - stupid GW.

Why you would even try to Hit and Run with an I2 unit is beyond me, but go for it.

McNinja wrote:Why you would even try to Hit and Run with an I2 unit is beyond me, but go for it.

That's still a 1 in 3 chance.

McNinja wrote:Why you would even try to Hit and Run with an I2 unit is beyond me, but go for it.

It has a better chance of working than a Tyrannofex does of popping a Land Raider.

Unit1126PLL wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:The target unit was a unit of lychguard, with an IC as a normal member of the unit (oage 49)

Hm, I thought it would be more logical than that, I.E.:

Unit A = Lychguard + IC
I = IC
L = Lychguard

Target Unit = Unit A = (I+L)

I != (I+L) provided L != 0 (it isn't). This is why Obyron loses the rule.

L != (I+L) provided I != 0 (it also isn't). This is identical in structure and meaning to the statement above, but is for some reason not applied. :/

But clearly logic isn't applied in this case - stupid GW.

I don't know that your logic is sound in this case. Here's a lengthy discussion about the same topic involving Characters on Thunderwolf mounts joining Thunderwolf Cavalry with an IC already attached: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/442940.page

Lordhat wrote:I don't know that your logic is sound in this case.

Neither of these arguments (TWC, Zandrekh) are based on logic - they're semantics, definition of terms. ie, completely arbitrary and *agreed on* meaning/usage of the "unit" concept. lol No grist for the logic mill.

I think it is just a situation not handled well by the rulebook, but considering it makes allot of rules and situations not work it is generally ruled in a different way. Just as with Royal Court Members, and Wolf guard, there is no support in the rule book for how they function as upgrade characters, it has all been covered by FAQs to make it work well.

I had to ask this question, just to cover my bases in the event of someone trying to call me on an army build I am using in our League.

I'm agreeing, ie, that it's not handled well in the rulebook b/c it's not clearly defined, so we're sorta forced to go with some reasonable convention. And anytime you do that, you can get alternate interpretations.