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Sniper Rifle: Range - 36", Strength - 3*, Armour Piercing - 6. Rending, Pinning.
*When targetting non-vehicle models, the Sniper Rifle's strength is its base strength (3) + the to-hit roll. Therefore, on a to-hit roll of 4, the Sniper Rifle would strike at Strength 7. This can still rend and cause instant death.

Basically, this makes the sniper rifle more deadly all-round, going back to the basic Sniper Rifle principle of a good shot (i.e. the better the to-hit roll, the more damage it does). This means, rather than wounding on a 4+, it can now wound most basic targets on a 2+ and even instant-death some models/characters ("Head Shot" - Unreal Tournament Fella), it's also a nice and unique rule IMHO.
However, it is balanced by being 1-shot, still weak against vehicles and typically allowing armour saves. Also, the instant-death ability may sometimes be wasted as it can be difficult to pick out characters.

I think overall it's an improvement, but balanced.
If people still think it's underpowered, then it could also have a pinning modifier (-1) for each wound suffered by the unit or its range increased. Or combine/be replaced with one of/a combination of the below...

Other possible changes could include:
- Rending on a to-hit and to-wound roll of 6.
- Armour save roll modification depending on the to-hit roll (-1 on a 4, -2 on a 5, -3 on a 6 or something)
- Must take a pinning test for each wound.


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Just some thoughts that went through my head for a possible Sniper Rifle change. It may seem OP at a glance, but it's got a helluva lot of balancing factors and if anything, I would say it's infact underpowered.

Bs3 model would hit at S7
Bs5 (hit roll of 2) model would hit at S5 (3+2)
So the better the model is at shooting the worse the shot is?

Not quite, the better the BS of the model, the more likely they are to hit. Both can reach up to Str9, just the higher the BS the more likely they are to hit. whilst 2+ (str5) is still wounding meq's on a 3+.

But a BS5 dude is exactly as capable of dealing amazing shots as a BS2 dude, the BS5 just has the capability to do poorer shots. That doesn't make as much sense. I'd say you'd add the BS required to make that hit to the strength of the shot, so a to hit roll of 6 will add +1S, to hit of 4 adds +3s, and a to hit of 2 adds +5s. This has the advantage of allowing BS6 and 7 to have an effect as well, if you allow for that.

It's still a clunky mechanic, but it makes better snipers better.

Good ruling, not too sure about it though as I fear that some big units might get insta-gibbed by this, but after rolling a barrage of sniper fire against a Hive Tyrant . With the Rending special rule still intact for the rules you have provided, said Hive Tyrant was half dead in a single volley of fire. Without the Rending special rule the Hive Tyrant shrugged off all but one of the shots.

Some ideas I have regarding the rules for sharpshooters and the Sniper Rifles they are equipped with.

Called Shot: Two models in a squad may attempt to make a Called Shot so long as one of the two models has a sniper rifle. One of the two models (the one without the sniper rifle if one has a sniper rifle and one doesn't) may not shoot or perform any other action during a shooting phase when a Called Shot is being made (as he is acting a spotter/range finder). The range of the model with the sniper rifle is doubled and the owning player may choose which enemy model he is shooting at (instead of the enemy player), but he will use his base Ballistic Skill for the shot instead of hitting the target on a To Hit roll of 2+ and will not benefit from the Rending special rule for the shot.

Now make Orks able to have sniper riffles (again), every hit will certainly count... lol (if the rule at the top is put in)

I think it sounds good, but as pointed out, lower BS are hitting at higher strength with their hits. (as in the only strength they hit with is the highest)

So its like someone with BS 3 is always managing to pull of the headshot.... were as bs 5 often isn't as accurate.

Mabey the strength increase could + how high you rolled over the to hit

eg: bs 5 rolls a 3 which is one higher so +1 strength.

Oh and i don't think sniper weapons should have a set Strength, i think it should just be the special rule.

(this is because different races have different snipers.

I'd say a to-hit roll of 6 increases the to-wound and Rending rolls by 1 (so wound on a 3+ and rend on a 5+).

The thing with having odd-out to-hit rolls: It means you have to separate your to-wound rolls even more; Normally, it's to-hit, to-wound, check rends, allocate. Now, it's to-hit, to-wound, check rends, to-wound', check rends', allocate.

Well a bs 2 model already has 50% of its hits rend, but that's a misleading statistic as it would still miss 2/3 of the time. The same would apply to the OP's proposal. A BS 5 model would have the potential to hit at a lower strength than a BS 2 model however every time a BS 5 model gets that weaker hit a BS 2 model would get no hit at all. Does accurately represent all possible outcomes for a poor shot? No, but the model with the higer BS still benefits more.

Another idea could be to resolve a to wound roll of 6 as strength 10 while keeping the 4+ to wound. Thus low toughness models can still suffer instant death and doesn't have the problems of a wide range of variable strength shots, just one additional type of result. It also has a chance of a rending ID shot. Not a huge buff but it's something.

Now, I might be wrong, but when the OP says:

Just Dave wrote:Sniper Rifle: Range - 36", Strength - 3*, Armour Piercing - 6. Rending, Pinning.
*When targetting non-vehicle models, the Sniper Rifle's strength is its base strength (3) + the to-hit roll. Therefore, on a to-hit roll of 4, the Sniper Rifle would strike at Strength 7. This can still rend and cause instant death.

I'm pretty sure he means it is Strength 3 + the BS for the model firing.

Ravendove wrote:Now, I might be wrong, but when the OP says:

Just Dave wrote:Sniper Rifle: Range - 36", Strength - 3*, Armour Piercing - 6. Rending, Pinning.
*When targetting non-vehicle models, the Sniper Rifle's strength is its base strength (3) + the to-hit roll. Therefore, on a to-hit roll of 4, the Sniper Rifle would strike at Strength 7. This can still rend and cause instant death.

I'm pretty sure he means it is Strength 3 + the BS for the model firing.

nope. S3+what you rolled to hit. If you rolled a 6 to hit, you be hitting at strength 9.

I think this is a great mechanic and I don't agree with those who are complaining about high BS being penalized at all.

Hitting (albeit at a lower strength) is always better than missing in my book.

Comparison

BS3
Roll 1 - Miss
Roll 2 - Miss
Roll 3 - Miss
Roll 4 - Hit Str7
Roll 5 - Hit Str8
Roll 6 - Hit Str9 w/Rend

BS5
Roll 1 - Miss
Roll 2 - Hit Str5
Roll 3 - Hit Str6
Roll 4 - Hit Str7
Roll 5 - Hit Str8
Roll 6 - Hit Str9 w/Rend

The BS3 model has the same chance to get the 'lucky' shot but only if he rolls well. The BS5 model is still working against a multitude of factors (wind, movement, gravity, atmospherics, etc) but he can mitigate those factors in that even if he rolls low which is represented by still hitting, but at a lower strength.

Personally, I like it. It lets poisoned weapons get their "always wound on a 4+" nonsense and makes snipers a little more dynamic and exciting (with a pretty good buff, too).

DoW

What would happen if an Autarch got his hands on a Long Rifle? (i.e. BS6 model which on a roll of a 1 will roll to confirm the miss)

Is it the first or the second roll that counts? (I guess we have a precedent in the Gets Hot! rule in that it's the last roll that counts)

Oh, and what if the shot was S = BS + roll?. Makes BS 4+ models more likely to get better shots.

This thread again....

That makes sense, a shot to the arm does less than a shot to the neck, playing scouts I like this rule. However essentially you are boosting the strength of the gun which people can say should cost more points.

Mahtamori wrote:What would happen if an Autarch got his hands on a Long Rifle? (i.e. BS6 model which on a roll of a 1 will roll to confirm the miss)

Is it the first or the second roll that counts? (I guess we have a precedent in the Gets Hot! rule in that it's the last roll that counts)

Oh, and what if the shot was S = BS + roll?. Makes BS 4+ models more likely to get better shots.

1. It'd be whichever roll hits.

2. That could work, though the S would be over 10 sometimes.

Vendetta1221 wrote:This thread again....

YUP. Because this thread pops up so often...

Dayvuni wrote:That makes sense, a shot to the arm does less than a shot to the neck, playing scouts I like this rule. However essentially you are boosting the strength of the gun which people can say should cost more points.

It's still random, though. The gun is still AP6 (which I don't think snipers should be in the first place), and while shots can get up to S9, the cost increase shouldn't be more than 5 points.