Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Looking for advice one tuning this list for a 2000 point GT. It has to be flexible, because the tournament is out of state and I have no idea what kind of opponents to expect.

If you like the list, say so.

Here's the draft.

HQ

RP in power armor + chooser (Leads one of the GH packs)
Living Lightning and Jaws of the World Wolf
(110 points)

WP Terminator (to lead the wolf-guard)
(120 points)

Elites

Wolf Guard Terminators x4 each with SB + WC
Drop Pod
(187 points)

Wolf Scouts x 5 + meltagun
(85 points)

Troops

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, MotW, meltagun
WG x 1 + Combi-melta, PF
Rhino
(238 points)

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, MotW, meltagun
WG x 1 + Combi-melta, PF
Rhino
(238 points)

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, MotW, meltagun
Rhino
(195 points)

Heavy Support

LF x 6 + 3 Missile Launchers, 2 Lascannons
Razorback + LC + TLplas
(245 points)

LF x 6 + 4 Missile Launchers, 1 Lascannon
Razorback + LC + TLplas
(230 points)

LF x 6 + 4 Missile Launchers, 1 Lascannon
Razorback + LC + TLplas
(230 points)

Fast Attack

Land Speeder + Multimelta
(60 points)

Land Speeder + Multimelta
(60 points)

Total = 1998 points

Strange layout for Long Fangs, but I guess You only have 11 Missile launchers, right?
I like this list, except that I would have given combi-weapons to droppoding terminators, so that they have more flexibility/possible Antitank.
Also those MM Land Speeders are not going to survive many turns. My own list is quite similar, except that I am a big fan of Tornadoes - I can support my Long Fangs with two additional krak missiles OR I can switch into antihorde mode, move only 6" and dish out two small frag blasts and full heavy bolter round.

You're right! I only have 11 ML's and I just cant stomach the $8 + shipping for each anymore. One day I'll buy a box of SM tacticals and get one more. Same with the combi-weapons on the Terminators - I just can't afford the bitz.

About the Land Speeders - I know what you mean. I'm sort of on the fence about giving up 2 kill points. I could take them out of the list and add meltabombs and a WG to the scouts? But I posted that list a while ago and the suggestion was to trade the scouts for Land Speeders.

I could take the LS's out and add another RP, but what would I do with him? I'd have to lose a WG pack leader so I could fit the RP with another GH squad.

On the other hand, they do represent a threat and could really help support the scouts. Maybe drawing fire away from my other units for one turn is the point.

I was not against Land Speeders as such - I only think that those with multimeltas are more vulnerable, because in order to do something useful they must be in such close range, where they easily can be popped by plasmas, missiles etc.
And btw, You could use RP instead of WP for that droppod. TDA for WP is not cost-effective, since he already gets an inv.save from Crozius. He does support those terminators with rerolls from preferred enemy, but RP might as well get nice Jaws from there, since You decide where the DP will go down and how the models will be arranged...
Stormcrow in his post below is actually right - the rule of thumb is one pack of Grey Hunters per each 500 points.

Btw, You don't have to loose a WG in order to fit in another RP with Hunters - just take 8 hunters instead...

Not a fan of just three troops; are you aware of the missions beforehand? If so then it might not matter.

I don't know the missions in advance.

You think maybe split up one GH unit? They would be more vulnerable and I'd have to lose something else to pay for another vehicle.

You could put 10 fully kitted out Hunters in that DP instead of terminators, unless You are dead set on on those of course. WG TDA are great, but quite overpriced for competitive play (unless they play as a pure Loganwing list, but that's a whole different story and playstyle).

CainTheHunter wrote:You could put 10 fully kitted out Hunters in that DP instead of terminators, unless You are dead set on on those of course. WG TDA are great, but quite overpriced for competitive play (unless they play as a pure Loganwing list, but that's a whole different story and playstyle).

That's a pretty good idea.

If I still have time and $ left before the tourney after I have finished painting my two LF packs, their Razorbacks and two Rhinos, then I'll probably do that instead. That's probably a better competition list.

But my army is also going to be a strong competitor for best painted and (*sigh) I can only paint so much grey power armor before my head explodes.

If You go this route, make sure that You give them 2 plasmaguns not meltas. They won't be assaulting anything on the turn they go down, so You have to do as much rapid fire damage as possible. Maybe one plasma pistol, but that debatable. They might have nice synergie with Your Wolf scouts, btw, if the latter come out where You planned on a 3+.

CainTheHunter wrote:If You go this route, make sure that You give them 2 plasmaguns not meltas. They won't be assaulting anything on the turn they go down, so You have to do as much rapid fire damage as possible. Maybe one plasma pistol, but that debatable. They might have nice synergie with Your Wolf scouts, btw, if the latter come out where You planned on a 3+.

Yes. That and I won't have to buy meltaguns. For some reason a box of 10 space wolves gives you a boat load of plasma pistols and plasmaguns, but not a single flamer or meltagun.

The reason for it is simply to push You into buying SM tactical squads, which You can mix with SW box contents. Btw, do You know that here is Space Wolves Accessories Frame available from GW site? It is the old SW sprue from previous edition with fancy WG pelt, meltagun, powerfist, power axe and runic power sword, as well as additional head/chest options and cool shoulderpad and supercool wolfhead backpack..

Actually, I started collecting SW's in the very late 90's - so I'm familiar with the "old" bits.

I had 5000+ points of SW as late as 2004 and one best painted army with them in 4 or 5 rouge trader tournaments. But then I got sick of 40K and I sold them all to buy into FoW.
Back in those days a box of Grey Hunters was just a box of tactical space marines with the "new" SW accessory frame in it.

I picked up 40k again very recently (< 1 yr) and I'm slowing building up my army again. The first squad I built was a group squad of 10 "old" blood claws that had been sitting in my attic from the 4th ed days.

Long story short - I like the new SW's MUCH better - even though the "new" accessory frame has a meltagun on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
correction... I *won* best painted ...

Grugknuckle wrote:Actually, I started collecting SW's in the very late 90's - so I'm familiar with the "old" bits.

I had 5000+ points of SW as late as 2004 and one best painted army with them in 4 or 5 rouge trader tournaments. But then I got sick of 40K and I sold them all to buy into FoW.
Back in those days a box of Grey Hunters was just a box of tactical space marines with the "new" SW accessory frame in it.

I picked up 40k again very recently (< 1 yr) and I'm slowing building up my army again. The first squad I built was a group squad of 10 "old" blood claws that had been sitting in my attic from the 4th ed days.

Long story short - I like the new SW's MUCH better - even though the "new" accessory frame has a meltagun on it.

I started with SW about 10 years - chose the 13th Company list...
Cheers!

CainTheHunter wrote:The reason for it is simply to push You into buying SM tactical squads, which You can mix with SW box contents. Btw, do You know that here is Space Wolves Accessories Frame available from GW site? It is the old SW sprue from previous edition with fancy WG pelt, meltagun, powerfist, power axe and runic power sword, as well as additional head/chest options and cool shoulderpad and supercool wolfhead backpack..

the power sword on that sprue isn't runic. It's just a regular power sword, but the hilt has a skull on it and the hand holding it may have a wolf tooth on it too.

Grugknuckle wrote:

CainTheHunter wrote:The reason for it is simply to push You into buying SM tactical squads, which You can mix with SW box contents. Btw, do You know that here is Space Wolves Accessories Frame available from GW site? It is the old SW sprue from previous edition with fancy WG pelt, meltagun, powerfist, power axe and runic power sword, as well as additional head/chest options and cool shoulderpad and supercool wolfhead backpack..

the power sword on that sprue isn't runic. It's just a regular power sword, but the hilt has a skull on it and the hand holding it may have a wolf tooth on it too.

Right! The new powersword is runic, though the old one is quite nice too.

OK, how's this? Drop the Wolf Priest AND the Terminators. Added another GH pack with a WG leader and another Land Speeder with MM. So the Scouts can outflank, while the drop pod and the land speeders all deep strike. They can put pressure on the enemy objectives and or pop vehicles while the main force advances.

HQ

RP in power armor + chooser (Leads one of the GH packs)
Living Lightning and Jaws of the World Wolf
(110 points)


Elites

Wolf Scouts x 5 + meltagun
(85 points)

Troops

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, MotW, Plasmagun
WG x 1 + Combi-plasma, PF
Drop Pod
(248 points)

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, MotW, meltagun
WG x 1 + Combi-melta, Wolf Claw
Rhino
(233 points)

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, MotW, meltagun
WG x 1 + Combi-melta, PF
Rhino
(238 points)

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, MotW, meltagun
Rhino
(195 points)

Heavy Support

LF x 6 + 3 Missile Launchers, 2 Lascannons
Razorback + LC + TLplas
(245 points)

LF x 6 + 4 Missile Launchers, 1 Lascannon
Razorback + LC + TLplas
(230 points)

LF x 6 + 4 Missile Launchers, 1 Lascannon
Razorback + LC + TLplas
(230 points)

Fast Attack

Land Speeder + Multimelta
(60 points)

Land Speeder + Multimelta
(60 points)

Land Speeder + Multimelta
(60 points)

Total = 1999 points

I don't like the speeders as they are configured. I would drop one and make the other 2 typhoon speeders. Much better load out.

I would make 2 of the GH squads 5 man with MotW, no standard in razorbacks. I have never really seen much need to take both standards and MotW in a GH unit.

I think the drop pod GH squad is...interesting. I'm not sold on it, but I'm not against it.

I'm not sure I would run LC LF's without Logan. I would bite the bullet and spend the $35 to fill out the ml's. I mean if you are travelling out of state, you might as well go all in.

Before I go any further, can you field 3 tml/hb speeders?

Just FYI, my 2k list has just a few less bodies, but with 35 heavy weapons (27 are ml's) and 20 special weapons.

imweasel wrote:I don't like the speeders as they are configured. I would drop one and make the other 2 typhoon speeders. Much better load out.

Not enough points. The typhoon missile launchers are 40 points each.

I would make 2 of the GH squads 5 man with MotW, no standard in razorbacks. I have never really seen much need to take both standards and MotW in a GH unit.

I see the wisdom of more firepower. But I like my GH packs to be fully kitted out. Tough and threatening.

I think the drop pod GH squad is...interesting. I'm not sold on it, but I'm not against it.

It was originally a unit of WG termies with a wolf priest. I could go either way

I'm not sure I would run LC LF's without Logan. I would bite the bullet and spend the $35 to fill out the ml's. I mean if you are travelling out of state, you might as well go all in.

not gonna happen. I just shelled out $68 for 8 ML bits two days ago.

Before I go any further, can you field 3 tml/hb speeders?

I'd have to buy them, build them and paint them. See above.

Just FYI, my 2k list has just a few less bodies, but with 35 heavy weapons (27 are ml's) and 20 special weapons.

I'm guessing you have 15 LF's, 3 TML speeders and 3 WG with CML's.

Correct on that guess. typhoons are only 30 points each. dropping one badly configured speeder to make the other 2 badly configured ones good is a win/win. Like most players, you are spending way to many points on upgrades instead of simply buying more 'stuff'.

I don't mind 10 man GH squads, just be leary of getting all those upgraded. It adds up real quick.

imweasel wrote:
Like most players, you are spending way to many points on upgrades instead of simply buying more 'stuff'.

Which upgrades am I buying for my GH squads would you get rid of? MotW, meltagun or standard? or all three? it's only 30 points per squad of upgrades. If I dropped all of it, my squads would be dramatically less effective and I wouldn't really be able to buy much more "stuff" with 120 points. That's like one character - and except for the rune priest not an especially good one.

Getting both motw and standards is a waste, imo. Just go with standards. The general rule is 6 man razor squads get motw and full squads get standards. personally i would drop the pfs as well, except for a wg that might go with the scouts. The meltas are fine. By the way, thst 120 points is enough to buy another 5 man gh squad with melta in a razorback. Just saying...

Adjusted. I think this is it.

HQ

RP in power armor + Chooser, LL and JotWW


Elites

Wolf Scouts x 5 + Meltagun
WG x 1 + Combi-melta, PF


Troops

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, MotW, Meltagun
WG x 1 + Combi-melta, PF
Rhino

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, MotW, Meltagun
WG x 1 + Combi-melta, PF
Rhino

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, Plasmagun
Rhino

GH x 5 + MotW, Flamer
Razorback + LC&TLPlasmagun

GH x 5 + MotW, Flamer
Razorback + LC&TLPlasmagun

GH x 5 + MotW, Flamer
Razorback + TL Lascannon


Heavy Support

LF x 6 + 4 Missile Launchers, 1 Plasmacannon

LF x 6 + 4 Missile Launchers, 1 Plasmacannon

LF x 6 + 4 Missile Launchers, 1 Plasmacannon


Fast Attack

Land Speeder Typhoon

Land Speeder Typhoon

Total = 1999 points, 19 Kill Points, 6 scoring units,

Model Count
(3 Rhinos, 3 Razorbacks, 2 Landspeeders, 64 Space Wolves in power armor, 5 Wolf Scouts)

Solid. Very solid. I still don't think you need motw and standards, but meh, it's only 30pts and makes your GH squads almost as good as some elite assault squads.

Take it out for a test spin and let us know how it works out.

imweasel wrote:Solid. Very solid. I still don't think you need motw and standards, but meh, it's only 30pts and makes your GH squads almost as good as some elite assault squads.

Take it out for a test spin and let us know how it works out.

I've got to save my $ for some Typhoons, and I've got 3 razorbacks and 15 GH's on the workbench. But I'll play with the rest of it once a week just to get practice. I'm shooting for early July to have everything assembled and mid September for everything to be painted.

I played this list (minus the land speeders and plus another RP) twice this week. Once against Necrons and once against Tau. They weren't exactly super competitive games - they were at the FLGS - but the wolves won both games by big margins.

More grey hunters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grugknuckle wrote:I played this list (minus the land speeders and plus another RP) twice this week. Once against Necrons and once against Tau. They weren't exactly super competitive games - they were at the FLGS - but the wolves won both games by big margins.

Its an overpowered codex and a powergamer list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grugknuckle wrote:Adjusted. I think this is it.

HQ

RP in power armor + Chooser, LL and JotWW


Elites

Wolf Scouts x 5 + Meltagun
WG x 1 + Combi-melta, PF


Troops

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, MotW, Meltagun
WG x 1 + Combi-melta, PF
Rhino

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, MotW, Meltagun
WG x 1 + Combi-melta, PF
Rhino

GH x 9 + Wolf Standard, Plasmagun
Rhino

GH x 5 + MotW, Flamer
Razorback + LC&TLPlasmagun

GH x 5 + MotW, Flamer
Razorback + LC&TLPlasmagun

GH x 5 + MotW, Flamer
Razorback + TL Lascannon


Heavy Support

LF x 6 + 4 Missile Launchers, 1 Plasmacannon

LF x 6 + 4 Missile Launchers, 1 Plasmacannon

LF x 6 + 4 Missile Launchers, 1 Plasmacannon


Fast Attack

Land Speeder Typhoon

Land Speeder Typhoon

Total = 1999 points, 19 Kill Points, 6 scoring units,

Model Count
(3 Rhinos, 3 Razorbacks, 2 Landspeeders, 64 Space Wolves in power armor, 5 Wolf Scouts)

Wtf why would you bring msu grey hunters....that isnt how you play wolves.

@Smitty

I get it, you're just making a joke, right?

On a more serious note, I think the list is fine...all be it a little different from what I run, but each unto their own.

Its not an OP codex, if you want to talk about that topic go over to the General Discussion board.

Anyway, the list looks good to me. A guy around here won a couple of tournaments about a year and half ago playing a straight drop pod Wolf army with a bunch of Grey Hunters and some Dreads in Pods. It was a hard army to counter as you really couldn't screw it over too bad.

Then Grey Knights came out and he put it on the shelf and then eventually sold it because of the 3 guys at the local store who were using GK's 2 had a bare minimum of 2 Warp Quake bubbles in every army list.

Smitty0305 wrote:
Its an overpowered codex and a powergamer list.

You're going to flame me because I play space wolves? Really dude? You don't even know me.

I've been playing space wolves since they came out in the early 90's... Not because they have a powerful dex, but because vikings are cool. But not as cool as VIKING SPACE MARINES! And trust me, there was a time during 3rd edition when this list would have been smoked by lots of stuff. Even Tau and Chaos. So don't be jealous just because your silly space elves haven't got any GW love lately.

Wtf why would you bring msu grey hunters....that isnt how you play wolves.

That isn't how YOU would play wolves you mean?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also....who knows if this will still be a "powergamer list" when 6th Edition comes out. Probably not.

I think this list will still do fine in 6th Edition...the Wolves have a fantastic assortment of gear and units to keep them going in just about every environment.