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Just looking for clarification - I was looking up the Dark Eldar's new background and found a reference to 'hybrids'. Are they Half-Human or Half-Craftworld Eldar, born from the countless slaves exploited by the Dark Eldar? Or are they something the Haemonculi came up with in their gene-labs?

OH GOD THE TERROR!!!

It's broken.

They are certaintly not half human. Humans and Eldar are biologically incompatable.

Eldar DNA has 8 Chromosomes and it takes multiple couplings to fertilize an embryo.

Grey Templar wrote:They are certaintly not half human. Humans and Eldar are biologically incompatable.

Eldar DNA has 8 Chromosomes and it takes multiple couplings to fertilize an embryo.

Wait, isn't that Ork DNA - 8 chromosomes means three strands.

***I will not discuss the latter. PERIOD. Talk about can of worms.***

No such thing as biologically incompatible when Haemonculi are involved

Ascalam wrote:No such thing as biologically incompatible when Haemonculi are involved

Agreed, though the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Powers would give them a run for their money. But despite parallel evolution, I would still argue Humans and Eldar are compatible - GW just replaced the character, they never went squat on the whole concept.

As much as I hate to admit it the Dark Eldar are miles ahead of whatever the Adeptus Mechanicus is capable of, especially when it comes to tampering with things that are hideously unnatural. I doubt very highly that there is some sort of situation where human and eldar slaves are naturally breeding and siring functional children, but I don't doubt it to be beyond the ability of the Haemonculi to create something that could be considered a hybrid between a human and eldar. The possibilities if they were fertile are many, a slave that breeds as readily as a human but has all the capacity for emotion (like pain) as an eldar? There would certainly be an attraction in that.

And if you read Path of the Renegade you'll understand that very, very few things are considered taboo by the haemonculi.

Hazardous Harry wrote:As much as I hate to admit it the Dark Eldar are miles ahead of whatever the Adeptus Mechanicus is capable of, especially when it comes to tampering with things that are hideously unnatural.

Only the devotees of Slaanesh are beyond the Haemonculi. So, as much as I hate to admit it either, you're probably right. The Adeptus Mechanicus might be able to do something, but they won't. And even if they did, they'd barely equal the Haemonculi.

I doubt very highly that there is some sort of situation where human and eldar slaves are naturally breeding and siring functional children

Why not? It's the Dark City after all. Even the strongest will eventually crumble. I'd argue the Dark Eldar would find great amusement in paring Humans and Craftworld Eldar together, if they even need to. Broken mortals will always seek companionship - Humans and Eldar are so alike that broken members of either species would care little (if at all) if it brings comfort and a small spark of hope; such hollow and meaningless hope would also bring great amusement to the Dark Eldar, especially once the parents realize their children will have be slaves like them and have no other choice: even if they (the parents and/or the children) escape the Dark City, the Imperium and the Craftworlds will hunt them down without mercy.

I don't doubt it to be beyond the ability of the Haemonculi to create something that could be considered a hybrid between a human and eldar. The possibilities if they were fertile are many, a slave that breeds as readily as a human but has all the capacity for emotion (like pain) as an eldar? There would certainly be an attraction in that.

I wouldn't put it above those sick .

And if you read Path of the Renegade you'll understand that very, very few things are considered taboo by the haemonculi.

The only one I believe is psychic power - use it and die. I doubt any of them would dare break the one absolute taboo of the Dark City.

Tadashi wrote:
Only the devotees of Slaanesh are beyond the Haemonculi.

In terms of plain icky/wrongness? Definitely. But in terms of gene-splicing and moulding the flesh of any species to a specific task? I'd argue the Haemonculi go way past even Fabius Bile with that regard. We are talking about the guys who, through the dark powers of SCIENCE!, can resurrect a fully functional Archon from the remnants of a bloody toenail

I doubt very highly that there is some sort of situation where human and eldar slaves are naturally breeding and siring functional children

Why not? It's the Dark City after all. Even the strongest will eventually crumble. I'd argue the Dark Eldar would find great amusement in paring Humans and Craftworld Eldar together, if they even need to. Broken mortals will always seek companionship - Humans and Eldar are so alike that broken members of either species would care little (if at all) if it brings comfort and a small spark of hope; such hollow and meaningless hope would also bring great amusement to the Dark Eldar, especially once the parents realize their children will have be slaves like them and have no other choice: even if they (the parents and/or the children) escape the Dark City, the Imperium and the Craftworlds will hunt them down without mercy.

There really isn't any depths a Dark Eldar wouldn't sink to, or have others sink to, in order to benefit from even the slightest form of sick pleasure, so I don't doubt that there are plenty of Dark Eldar enjoying the disgust, shame and degradation that would be involved in forcing two species to coupulate. I even think slaves could be so mentally broken down in some cases they will seek solace with anyone or anything that doesn't treat them like refuse, even if they're of another species. I just don't think Humans and Eldar are naturally capable of siring children. Or functional children in any case.

I wouldn't put it above those sick .

Before I read PotR I thought the Dark Eldar were dicks, I just didn't realise how right I was in that assumption.

And if you read Path of the Renegade you'll understand that very, very few things are considered taboo by the haemonculi.

The only one I believe is psychic power - use it and die. I doubt any of them would dare break the one absolute taboo of the Dark City.

Well that and anything that might cause a Dysjunction (basically the Commoragh/Webway equivalent of an earthquake I believe.

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Tadashi wrote:
Only the devotees of Slaanesh are beyond the Haemonculi.

In terms of plain icky/wrongness? Definitely. But in terms of gene-splicing and moulding the flesh of any species to a specific task? I'd argue the Haemonculi go way past even Fabius Bile with that regard. We are talking about the guys who, through the dark powers of SCIENCE!, can resurrect a fully functional Archon from the remnants of a bloody toenail

Put like that, I have to agree.

I doubt very highly that there is some sort of situation where human and eldar slaves are naturally breeding and siring functional children

Why not? It's the Dark City after all. Even the strongest will eventually crumble. I'd argue the Dark Eldar would find great amusement in paring Humans and Craftworld Eldar together, if they even need to. Broken mortals will always seek companionship - Humans and Eldar are so alike that broken members of either species would care little (if at all) if it brings comfort and a small spark of hope; such hollow and meaningless hope would also bring great amusement to the Dark Eldar, especially once the parents realize their children will have be slaves like them and have no other choice: even if they (the parents and/or the children) escape the Dark City, the Imperium and the Craftworlds will hunt them down without mercy.

There really isn't any depths a Dark Eldar wouldn't sink to, or have others sink to, in order to benefit from even the slightest form of sick pleasure, so I don't doubt that there are plenty of Dark Eldar enjoying the disgust, shame and degradation that would be involved in forcing two species to coupulate. I even think slaves could be so mentally broken down in some cases they will seek solace with anyone or anything that doesn't treat them like refuse, even if they're of another species. I just don't think Humans and Eldar are naturally capable of siring children. Or functional children in any case.

I don't know. There hasn't been any case of parallel evolution like Humans and Eldar in real life, so we can't really be sure. The closest we have is that character from RT; GW has replaced the character, but as I've said before, they haven't exactly gone squat on the matter. Typical...

Tadashi wrote:
I don't know. There hasn't been any case of parallel evolution like Humans and Eldar in real life, so we can't really be sure. The closest we have is that character from RT; GW has replaced the character, but as I've said before, they haven't exactly gone squat on the matter. Typical...

I'd imagine that the idea of fraternising with the xenos is so full of heresy that even a discussion on the possibility of copulating and having children with the xenos is extra heretical. You definitely couldn't find an Imperial Source that would discuss it, and I highly doubt the Eldar would talk about it either. When you think about it though, Humans and apes are probably closer in genetical terms than Humans and Eldar, given that we have absolutely no common ancestry at all it's highly unlikely that any extremely heretical dealings with the xenos could result in children.

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Tadashi wrote:
I don't know. There hasn't been any case of parallel evolution like Humans and Eldar in real life, so we can't really be sure. The closest we have is that character from RT; GW has replaced the character, but as I've said before, they haven't exactly gone squat on the matter. Typical...

I'd imagine that the idea of fraternising with the xenos is so full of heresy that even a discussion on the possibility of copulating and having children with the xenos is extra heretical. You definitely couldn't find an Imperial Source that would discuss it, and I highly doubt the Eldar would talk about it either. When you think about it though, Humans and apes are probably closer in genetical terms than Humans and Eldar, given that we have absolutely no common ancestry at all it's highly unlikely that any extremely heretical dealings with the xenos could result in children.

Parallel evolution with regard to Humans hasn't been researched (what can we research), so we shouldn't set our thinking in stone on the matter. Besides, this is 40k we're discussing. It doesn't have to make sense.

Science-fiction? I don't think so. Science-fiction makes the improbable possible. We are dealing with science-fantasy - the impossible becoming probable.

Tadashi wrote:[

Science-fiction? I don't think so. Science-fiction makes the improbable possible. We are dealing with science-fantasy - the impossible becoming probable.

Yes, through dickery with genetics under the tool of a haemonculi, not the natural evolutionary order.

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Tadashi wrote:[

Science-fiction? I don't think so. Science-fiction makes the improbable possible. We are dealing with science-fantasy - the impossible becoming probable.

Yes, through dickery with genetics under the tool of a haemonculi, not the natural evolutionary order.

Too many variables...I don't like to or want to set my mind in stone over the matter.

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Tadashi wrote:
I don't know. There hasn't been any case of parallel evolution like Humans and Eldar in real life, so we can't really be sure. The closest we have is that character from RT; GW has replaced the character, but as I've said before, they haven't exactly gone squat on the matter. Typical...

I'd imagine that the idea of fraternising with the xenos is so full of heresy that even a discussion on the possibility of copulating and having children with the xenos is extra heretical. You definitely couldn't find an Imperial Source that would discuss it, and I highly doubt the Eldar would talk about it either. When you think about it though, Humans and apes are probably closer in genetical terms than Humans and Eldar, given that we have absolutely no common ancestry at all it's highly unlikely that any extremely heretical dealings with the xenos could result in children.

I imagine a rather eccentric Magos Biologis might have researched into such an area. Granted he wouldn't have much to work with since he can't actually attempt to have them reproduce without it being outright heresy, but he might be able to gather enough information by examining the Eldar reproductive organs and genome to take a gander at whether or not it is theoretically possible without massive technological assistance.

The most current fluff that brought up Human and Eldar reproduction was quite clear that there was no way for them to reproduce naturally.

Who knows what a homunculus could do but I think it would be more akin to stiching parts together then altering somethings DNA.

Grey Templar wrote:The most current fluff that brought up Human and Eldar reproduction was quite clear that there was no way for them to reproduce naturally.

Who knows what a homunculus could do but I think it would be more akin to stiching parts together then altering somethings DNA.

Source?

Xenology,

Nothing has yet contradicted this material.

And even if there were no material, we would have to assume that humans and eldar cannot reproduce. The only way to say they can is if something explicitly says they can.

Buttons wrote:
I imagine a rather eccentric Magos Biologis might have researched into such an area. Granted he wouldn't have much to work with since he can't actually attempt to have them reproduce without it being outright heresy, but he might be able to gather enough information by examining the Eldar reproductive organs and genome to take a gander at whether or not it is theoretically possible without massive technological assistance.

I'd say that even discussing the possibility of reproduction between xenos and human would definitely already fall under heresy. We are talking about a setting where even acknowledging that the enemy has more advanced technology (as opposed to different and inferior) is going to get you burnt at the stake.

Grey Templar wrote:Xenology,

Nothing has yet contradicted this material.

Xenology is a very shaky material as far as sources are concerned. It's the same source that kicked off the argument that Ethereals exert mind control over the other Tau castes, and is by no means a solid argument in and of itself.

And even if there were no material, we would have to assume that humans and eldar cannot reproduce. The only way to say they can is if something explicitly says they can.

I agree.

Eldar-human hybrids?

Where's the picture of that Rogue-Trader Space Marine Mechanicus Half-Eldar guy?

The universe was an interesting place back in the 90's, evidently!

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:Eldar-human hybrids?

Where's the picture of that Rogue-Trader Space Marine Mechanicus Half-Eldar guy?

The universe was an interesting place back in the 90's, evidently!

DoW

He was an Ultramarine Librarian if a recall correctly, and I'm pretty sure that's been retconned hard.

Tadashi wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:They are certaintly not half human. Humans and Eldar are biologically incompatable.

Eldar DNA has 8 Chromosomes and it takes multiple couplings to fertilize an embryo.

Wait, isn't that Ork DNA - 8 chromosomes means three strands.

***I will not discuss the latter. PERIOD. Talk about can of worms.***

Told you so.

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Buttons wrote:
I imagine a rather eccentric Magos Biologis might have researched into such an area. Granted he wouldn't have much to work with since he can't actually attempt to have them reproduce without it being outright heresy, but he might be able to gather enough information by examining the Eldar reproductive organs and genome to take a gander at whether or not it is theoretically possible without massive technological assistance.

I'd say that even discussing the possibility of reproduction between xenos and human would definitely already fall under heresy. We are talking about a setting where even acknowledging that the enemy has more advanced technology (as opposed to different and inferior) is going to get you burnt at the stake.

Still, the Adeptus Mechanicus has a pretty big degree of autonomy and the Imperium (short of some very puritanical inquisitors) probably wouldn't mind the research by a high ranking member of the Adeptus Mechanicus as long as they didn't take it too far. Also, Magos Biologis are allowed to study Xenos, it wouldn't be too absurd to imagine that they would ponder the idea of human/eldar comparability based off of their similarities. As saying they won't actively breed them, probably just examine their genome and reproductive organs.

To what end?

What purpose could this possably have for anybody?

Buttons wrote:
Still, the Adeptus Mechanicus has a pretty big degree of autonomy and the Imperium (short of some very puritanical inquisitors) probably wouldn't mind the research by a high ranking member of the Adeptus Mechanicus as long as they didn't take it too far. Also, Magos Biologis are allowed to study Xenos, it wouldn't be too absurd to imagine that they would ponder the idea of human/eldar comparability based off of their similarities. As saying they won't actively breed them, probably just examine their genome and reproductive organs.

The Adeptus Mechanicus aren't even allowed to take a look at Xenos technology without heavy overview from the Inquisition (Imperial Armour, Vol.11). Maybe a semi-rouge Inquisitor might be authorise a Magos Biologus to take a looksie at a Eldar corpse or two to look at the most efficient way of killing them. But to discuss the possibility (or impossibility) of breeding between the Human and Eldar species? That would be the worst kind of heresy imaginable to the Ordo Xenos, and would never be tolerated.

I remember watching the Games Workshop teaser videos before the Dark Eldar Codex came out. The writer of the codex and the sculpter of the models, mentioned repeatedly that there was a ton of cross breeding, (sexual) going on with the slaves, (humans, tau, eldar). If the dude who wrote the fluff says that it can happen, then it can.

On Human and Eldar hybrids...

Love Can Bloom (and off shoots)...

Love can bloom, but there is no fruit.

The gun's loaded but its shooting blanks.

Found it!



It's like the ramblings of a madman!

DoW