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2012/05/25 11:27:42
Subject: Half of Detroit's street lights to be turned off
.Half of Detroit’s Streetlights May Go Out as City Shrinks
Detroit Residents Stay In at Night as Lights Go Out
Detroit, whose 139 square miles contain 60 percent fewer residents than in 1950, will try to nudge them into a smaller living space by eliminating almost half its streetlights.
As it is, 40 percent of the 88,000 streetlights are broken and the city, whose finances are to be overseen by an appointed board, can’t afford to fix them. Mayor Dave Bing’s plan would create an authority to borrow $160 million to upgrade and reduce the number of streetlights to 46,000. Maintenance would be contracted out, saving the city $10 million a year.
Other U.S. cities have gone partially dark to save money, among them Colorado Springs; Santa Rosa, California; and Rockford, Illinois. Detroit’s plan goes further: It would leave sparsely populated swaths unlit in a community of 713,000 that covers more area than Boston, Buffalo and San Francisco combined. Vacant property and parks account for 37 square miles (96 square kilometers), according to city planners.
“You have to identify those neighborhoods where you want to concentrate your population,” said Chris Brown, Detroit’s chief operating officer. “We’re not going to light distressed areas like we light other areas.”
Detroit’s dwindling income and property-tax revenue have required residents to endure unreliable buses and strained police services throughout the city. Because streetlights are basic to urban life, deciding what areas to illuminate will reshape the city, said Kirk Cheyfitz, co-founder of a project called Detroit143 -- named for the 139 square miles of land, plus water -- that publicizes neighborhood issues.
Rethinking Detroit
“It touches kids going to school in the dark,” said Cheyfitz, chief executive of Story Worldwide Ltd., a New York marketing company. “It touches midnight Mass at a church. It touches businesses that want to stay open past 9 p.m.”
Bing in 2010 began an independent project called Detroit Works to sort ideas on how to reconfigure the city for residences, businesses, green space and even agriculture, a plan due in August.
Meantime, Brown said, the city will fix broken streetlights in certain places even as it discontinues such services as street and sidewalk repairs in “distressed” areas -- those with a high degree of blight and little or no commercial activity.
Bing’s plan requires state legislation to create the lighting authority. Governor Rick Snyder supports the plan, said his senior policy adviser, Valerie Brader.
Dark Portents
There’s already experience snuffing out streetlights within Detroit’s borders. Highland Park, a 3-square-mile city encircled by its larger neighbor, removed 1,100 of 1,600 streetlights last year, after piling up a $4 million debt to DTE Energy. The move saves $45,000 a month, said Alejandro Bodipo-Memba, a spokesman for the company.
Only major streets and intersections remain lit in the city of 12,000, once home to Chrysler Group LLC’s namesake car manufacturer and Henry Ford’s first moving assembly line. Mayor DeAndre Windom, 45, said residents at first complained, though few do now. He’s considering grants and private funding to relight darkened streets
Colorado Springs pulled the plug on 9,000 of its 25,600 lights in 2010 to save $1.3 million, said David Krauth, a city traffic engineer. Some were relit as revenue improved, though 3,500 remain dark, saving about $500,000 a year, he said.
In Detroit, some streets have no working lights. Many appear dim or are blocked by trees. And some areas with mostly vacant lots are well-lit.
Night Terrors
A single, broken streetlight on the northeast side brings fear to Cynthia Perry, 55. It hasn’t worked for six years, Perry said in an interview on the darkened sidewalk where she walks from her garage to her house entrance.
“I’m afraid coming in at night,” she said. “I’m not going to seclude myself in the house and never go anywhere.”
In southwest Detroit, businesses on West Vernor Highway, a main commercial thoroughfare, have sought $4 million in private grants to fix the situation themselves. The state would pay $2.5 million, said Kathy Wendler, president of the Southwest Detroit Business Association.
Jamahl Makled, 40, said he’s owned businesses in southwest Detroit for about two decades, most recently cell-phone stores. He said they’ve have been burglarized more than a dozen times.
“In the dark, criminals are comfortable,” Makled said. “It’s not good for the economy and the safety of the residents.”
Antique Lamps
North of there, on a stretch of West Grand Boulevard, the bases of light poles show where thieves tore out the wiring.
As many as 15,000 Detroit streetlights use 1920s technology, according to a 2010 study by McKinsey & Co. Upgrading the system would cost $140 million to $200 million, and $5 million more to operate than the $23 million now spent annually, the report said.
Besides streetlights, the Detroit lighting department provides electricity to 144 customers that include Detroit schools, Wayne State University and local government offices. Almost 22 percent of the city’s electric bills were unpaid, the McKinsey report said.
That’s just one reason Detroit is digging out of a $265 million deficit and saddled with more than $12 billion in long- term debt. To avoid a state takeover, Detroit agreed in April to have its finances overseen by a nine-member board appointed by the city and the state.
Civic Obligations
Delivering services to a thinly spread population is expensive. Some 20 neighborhoods, each a square mile or more, are only 10 to 15 percent occupied, said John Mogk, a law professor at Wayne State University who specializes in urban law and policy. He said the city can’t force residents to move, and it’s almost impossible under Michigan law for the city to seize properties for development.
Mogk said landowners can demand many times what property would fetch on the open market.
“There are tremendous political, administrative, financial and, to some degree, legal obstacles,” Mogk said. “Unless you phase out a neighborhood altogether, you still need lighting, and waste pickup and police and fire protection.”
As Detroit’s streets go dark, some of those neighborhoods may fade away with the dying light.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/05/25 11:54:22
Subject: Half of Detroit's street lights to be turned off
Urban sprawl is a real problem and is very expensive on a city. Oklahoma City is huge and covers 621 square miles, so police, fire and EMS has to cover all that. I used to work for EMS and it was nothing for us to put 400+ miles on our ambulance in a 10 hour shift. So I can see how making the area where people are actually living smaller would be something that would benefit Chicago.
Now is a semi-forced relocation the solution? I don't think so. As long as everybody pays the same property taxes they should get the same service.
2012/05/25 11:58:05
Subject: Re:Half of Detroit's street lights to be turned off
"Over-anxious Britons are placing a blind, almost medieval, faith in brighter street-lamps and security lighting as crime deterrents, according to a statistical analysis. Government advice that surveys in Britain and the US show better lighting to have "no negative effects and demonstrable benefits for law-biding citizens" is flawed and unjustified, according to a study to be published in the British Journal of Criminology. "
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/05/25 14:37:44
Subject: Half of Detroit's street lights to be turned off
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/05/25 15:22:57
Subject: Half of Detroit's street lights to be turned off
Every time I watch Robocop I think to myself, "why is it dystopian Detroit looks better than real Detroit?"
Thats a good yet disconcerting point actually.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/05/25 15:23:43
Subject: Half of Detroit's street lights to be turned off
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/05/25 15:26:56
Subject: Half of Detroit's street lights to be turned off
Every time I watch Robocop I think to myself, "why is it dystopian Detroit looks better than real Detroit?"
QFT Look at where I'm from...
This is a song done by a great friend of mine, using an interview of Bill Bonds. Bill was a local anchorman. Like Ron Burgandy. Bill was actually inspiration for the character. I put the images together so all the typos are belong to me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/25 15:51:45
Anyone want to go in with me to buy up blocks of Detroit? Outside of where they plan to keep the city, which would end up being turned back into "farm land" aka acres upon acres of country side property, which may be worth something again.
My other thought is, we buy enough blocks in a line around where they want to keep the city, and we build a huge wall around it. Making the only option for getting out of Detroit via the water, or the bridge to Canada.
Just some ideas.
2012/05/25 17:47:27
Subject: Half of Detroit's street lights to be turned off
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:Anyone want to go in with me to buy up blocks of Detroit? Outside of where they plan to keep the city, which would end up being turned back into "farm land" aka acres upon acres of country side property, which may be worth something again.
My other thought is, we buy enough blocks in a line around where they want to keep the city, and we build a huge wall around it. Making the only option for getting out of Detroit via the water, or the bridge to Canada.
Just some ideas.
I thought about moving to detroit just because everything is so cheap, but the best thing you can really say about the place is: "they have a white caste"
This is where the government of michigan needs to come up with a plan and give incentives for people to move towards inner detroit so they can just demolish the outlying areas. Shrink the square footage down to a more manageable level. the money saved on not maintaining services the government could probably just buy up whole blocks to tear down and sell off the recyclables.
2012/05/25 17:51:36
Subject: Half of Detroit's street lights to be turned off
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/05/25 18:02:53
Subject: Re:Half of Detroit's street lights to be turned off
It's like those little factory towns all throughout middle-America. They exist solely because there's a factory there that employs the residents. But, once the factory closes, the town becomes impoverished and eventually, abandoned.
Except, in Detroit's case, it's a city of millions and an entire industry that closed.
Grakmar wrote:Except, in Detroit's case, it's a city of millions and an entire industry that closed.
Detroit isn't a city of millions anymore.
sirlynchmob wrote:I thought about moving to detroit just because everything is so cheap, but the best thing you can really say about the place is: "they have a white caste"
I really hope you meant "Castle."
Moving to Detroit is like buying stock in a company that's about to go bankrupt. You get a good deal, but not for very long.
text removed by Moderation team.
2012/05/25 18:10:35
Subject: Half of Detroit's street lights to be turned off
Every time I watch Robocop I think to myself, "why is it dystopian Detroit looks better than real Detroit?"
Thats a good yet disconcerting point actually.
It's also closely followed by, "Look its Red from That 70's Show"
Agreed on both points. Detroit is a pretty big gak hole. Flint is easily as bad, Saginaw is a gakker too.....seriously Michigan has a gak load of terrible cities for a state thats supposed to be a "Come look at our pretty forests and stuff!" Infact this year 2012, apparently there was a contest between Flint and Saginaw to see who got the first homicide of the year. What a horribly gakky state
And yea, Red for 70s show....I cant help but giggle when I see him playing a hardass
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/25 18:11:54
2012/05/25 18:25:04
Subject: Re:Half of Detroit's street lights to be turned off
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
2012/05/25 18:44:31
Subject: Half of Detroit's street lights to be turned off
on a sattelite french TV channel (TV5) Envoye Special. there was a coverage over the 'Decaying Detroit'
The phenomenon is due to 'Asian Boom' ones. many heavy industry in the US has relocated its manufacturing complices in either China, Vietnam, Indonesia, India, and to some extent.. Thailand (as in case of Chevrolet as a part of GM policy). Detroit, once ruled the Automobile industry, losts its title to many asian nations. the decline of the industry itself means many jobs dissappeared. thus leading to the decline.
And the phenomenon itself leads to 'neighbourhood demolition' policy.
1. Many street lights in Detroit will be permanently turned off!
2. Any neighbourhood that's severly under populated (or completely abandoned) will be demolished!! Mayor says Children of Detroit should NOT view the decaying city as a norm.
3. Pension and social security reductions.
Dunno how many citizens of Detroit had emigrated? but I believe many had left this city for good after 'Go East' policy is in effect.
towards the end of the emigration. Detroit might reverted itself to the pre-industrial encarnate. or What do you say?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/25 18:45:05
It was clear during Kwame Fitzpatrick's first term what sort of man he was, and what sort of Mayor he was, but they went on and re-elected him anyway. At some point, the people are responsible for the governments they keep electing.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2012/05/25 19:24:21
Subject: Re:Half of Detroit's street lights to be turned off
Ouze wrote:It was clear during Kwame Fitzpatrick's first term what sort of man he was, and what sort of Mayor he was, but they went on and re-elected him anyway. At some point, the people are responsible for the governments they keep electing.
Kilpatrick. And yes the electorate was numb enough not to turn out. I lived down the street from a polling place. I had that day off, and I counted 47 people come in to vote. All day. He essentially reelected himself just by getting his friends to vote for him. He also had something else going for him, charisma. He was Detroit's Hip-Hop Mayor, someone young, willing to turn things around... It wasn't until well into his second term that the wheels fell off that particular bus. There were rumbles, yes, but then there always are when Detroit politics is involved. Once the scope of the issue became transparent to everyone it was too late. I did not vote for him as I was not eligible to vote in that election (Just moved there 3 days before), but I would not have voted for him anyway. Then you factor in the City Council... Apparently retirement from the Detroit City Council is handled by the Federal Government, Bureau of Prisons... The last batch we had Martha Reeves wearing a tiara and singing when she bothered to show, now we have Charles Pugh taking off his shirt to show how much weight he lost.
And I am part of the problem as well. I abandoned my house in Detroit. It was worth about $4000. My mortgage was for $57000. I stopped paying it, and once I couldn't keep the lights on, I moved across Mack Ave. back to Grosse Pointe.
