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Just curious but has anyone had success with using carnifex equipped with venom cannons as anti-tank or using a squad of 2 to 3 dakkafexes in general. Im playing in the 1500pt range. On paper it seems to me that a carnifex or 2 with a heavy venom cannon would not be to bad as opposed to using hive guard for popping transports. I know the price is off by 35 points, but the carnifex has a 12" further range I know that you now have to account in scattering. I find that most of the time after hive guard have popped transports they dont have much else to contribute where as a carnifex will undoubtedly draw more fire and can wreck ac 14 in cc. I guess im just wondering if anyone has had success in 5th edition with carnifex in a competitive to semi competitive 1500pt environment.

The mediocre BS of a carnifex, combined with it's single shot, small blast template and scatter rules, and that -1 penalty it takes on vehicle penetration rolls really hurts it in the LRAT department. Even in a full brood, they're ultimately still rather mediocre as they're only going to be hitting with a fraction of their shots, which have a frighteningly high chance of doing nothing substantial even if they do hit, and such a brood is going to cost over half a thousand points, not worth it by any stretch of the imagination. If you want LRAT in your heavy support slots, a rupture cannon Tyrannofex will always be better for it's points and in absolute terms.

They are terrible options... as stated above their the blast template really makes them useless.


If you want to use one modify it a bit and call it a tyranofex. The rupture cannon is one of the best options for taking out large tanks.

Cool, thanks for the info!

For solely AT purposes, the rupture cannon is good, but in my experience the fleshborer hive is a thousand times more effective in general.

You need to consider your HS choices for AT together with elites. If you go heavy on zoanthropes and hive guard, then the ability to stunlock additional transports can be useful, but I would never rely on HS for my ranged AV. Your best HS AV will still be a trygon in CC!! Lets hope AP- gets better in 6th and then dakkafexes become good as the number of shots (and twin linked) balances out the poor BS3. The weapon can also double as good infantry killer.

Hunchkrot wrote:For solely AT purposes, the rupture cannon is good, but in my experience the fleshborer hive is a thousand times more effective in general.

There are a few things any given Tyranid army will lack, anti-infantry capability will never be one of those. Especially not *short ranged* anti-infantry. Additionally, thirty termagaunts will be cheaper and have more shots than a fleshborer Tfex. The Rupture cannon fills a role in the Tyranid army by virtue of being our only really effective long ranged heavy tank killer. It's no railgun but it gets the job done.

Kain wrote:

Hunchkrot wrote:For solely AT purposes, the rupture cannon is good, but in my experience the fleshborer hive is a thousand times more effective in general.

There are a few things any given Tyranid army will lack, anti-infantry capability will never be one of those. Especially not *short ranged* anti-infantry. Additionally, thirty termagaunts will be cheaper and have more shots than a fleshborer Tfex. The Rupture cannon fills a role in the Tyranid army by virtue of being our only really effective long ranged heavy tank killer. It's no railgun but it gets the job done.

That's a good point. And the Tyrannofex is still a S6 T6 W6 MC with a 2+ save that is decent at assaulting vehicles and flaming squads.

Rupture cannon is a good weapon, just not on a WS3 model with no ability to make it twin-linked ...

Assault 2 is better than Assault 1 Twin Linked.
Same percentage of at least one hit, and the potential for 2 hits.

Tyrannofex can kill infantry just fine at short range, give it the cluster spines and that 2+ to wound flamer, you need the rupture cannon for AT.

Eidolon wrote:Tyrannofex can kill infantry just fine at short range, give it the cluster spines and that 2+ to wound flamer, you need the rupture cannon for AT.

This, the Tyrannofex doesn't need anymore infantry killing ability, especially not in an army that is stuffed to the gills with footslogger killer weapons. But the Tyranids desperately need ranged anti-tank and the Tyrannofex provides.

Also, Onslaught is amazingly fun to use on Tyrannofexes.

Run and shoot three guns? Yes, please.

Ahh, the thought of having a Tervigon AND Tyrannofex makes me happy. Now I have to field three of each.

Contemporary wisdom says use zoanthropes in a mycetic spore, and/or Hive Guard.

Alternative wisdom says rupture cannons and Adrenal Gland Trygons do the trick.

My experience? Outflanking genestealers, flyrant, deathleaper, parasite of mortrex.

For a ranged killer, BS3 is really poor. A rupture cannon TFex is 265 points and for that price you can buy 5 and a bit hive guard ... and they are BS4. All are on a T6 base and so pretty durable from return fire. Different slots I know, buts its worth comparing costs of ranged AV when in the same codex.

A carnifex is also a woeful WS3 but with say devourers you have 6 or 12 attacks and those are twin-linked, so the low BS is not an issue that it is with 2 lone shots that hit on 4s.

If you've used the elite slots up then the TFex is an option as a ranged AV unit, but let's not get carried away and start thinking it's a good choice. It's maybe the only ranged choice in HS. If it was BS4, only 200 points, or the weapon was twin-linked (the codex allowed the harpy to have this ability on an otherwise single shot weapon so why not for the gun platform model) then I'd maybe start to consider it. As it is, HS for me is trygons and ranged comes from elites.

ruminator wrote:For a ranged killer, BS3 is really poor. A rupture cannon TFex is 265 points and for that price you can buy 5 and a bit hive guard ... and they are BS4. All are on a T6 base and so pretty durable from return fire. Different slots I know, buts its worth comparing costs of ranged AV when in the same codex.

A carnifex is also a woeful WS3 but with say devourers you have 6 or 12 attacks and those are twin-linked, so the low BS is not an issue that it is with 2 lone shots that hit on 4s.

If you've used the elite slots up then the TFex is an option as a ranged AV unit, but let's not get carried away and start thinking it's a good choice. It's maybe the only ranged choice in HS. If it was BS4, only 200 points, or the weapon was twin-linked (the codex allowed the harpy to have this ability on an otherwise single shot weapon so why not for the gun platform model) then I'd maybe start to consider it. As it is, HS for me is trygons and ranged comes from elites.

It's not that simple. Hive Guard can't penetrate AV14. Most importantly, the rupture cannon's 48" range means it has the potential to destroy a vehicle in round 1. You're also ignoring what else you get for the price. You get simply the most survivable unit in the book, and it comes with a reasonable large blast weapon (cluster spines), and an excellent template (dessicator larvae). Oh yeah, and it's a monstrous creature which means it can vehicles in close combat.

Having said that, Rupture Cannon Tyrannofex have only ever broken my heart. For a while I ran two of them in games of 1500-2000 points, and the only vehicles they killed were in close combat. Since then I usually bring one Acid Spray T-Fex for its incredible infantry killing ability.

I do think venom cannons are woefully poor against vehicles, but there is potential in a null-deploy list, where every spore has a heavy venom cannon, also their default weapon is excellent against rear armour if you're lucky in your scatter.

Personally I don't like Hive Guard, every enemy list has something specifically designed to kill a unit just like Hive Guard (outflankers, ordnance). I don't like Zoanthropes, because my local meta favors Psychic Hoods. I fill my elites with venomthropes and deathleaper. I'd love to try 9 lictors sometime, as my entire anti-tank force.

My FAVORITE anti-tank choice though is the Parasite of Mortrex. Nobody expects strength 6 jump infantry with rending, man.

Tyranofex is a monster you should attempt to build around, sort of a moot statement, as you'd be doing that with anything so costly, but he's better when you use him all.

He is very good at screening with his billion wounds and toughness, bigger body than other monsters and his dumbass low gun is bad for getting screens itself. The +2 armor and fnp can be great, and with these guys you will have enough anti tank to even squeeze in a venomthrope maybe or you can attempt to be a dweeb and screen him with gants or forward threats.

Thing is, he's a waste if you are just sitting around shooting. He's way too big and expensive and multi purposely armed for that, and let's face it, you have a lot of single target, close range units and no transports, you need to be messing with your opponent's ability to effectively use their guns with jerks like this guy and weasely tactics.

He's also one of your only ways to make use of that other tervigon ability! The fleet and shoot one! That's a choice not to fnp something though, so be careful, but let me tell you, when you can reliably cast that, your essential hive guard get way better, and people don't know what to think of charging tyranofex if you can get them to stick.

They are still sorta bad for what they cost though.
I just hate dealing with tanks in cc and having monsters isolated, so I like this style. You may want to play a different force for anti tank stuff though. Tyranids have troubles in spades. Stealer rends go so far. Some people like 3 trygon + lots of stealers + hive guard and tervigon support.

Squash wrote:

My FAVORITE anti-tank choice though is the Parasite of Mortrex. Nobody expects strength 6 jump infantry with rending, man.

Love to hear that! It's something I want to try but wasn't sure if I was crazy!

The only way I would even consider Carnifexes is 2 sets of talons and Adrenal. And only when I'm not even trying to win. As far as other AT, I find Ymgarls work extremely well.