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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 20:46:44
Subject: 'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Kid_Kyoto
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http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/23/health/living-well/demise-of-guys/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
Editor's note: Psychologist Dr. Philip Zimbardo is a professor emeritus at Stanford University and is world-renowned for his 1971 research, the Stanford Prison Experiment. Zimbardo teamed up with artist and psychologist Nikita Duncan to write "The Demise of Guys: Why Boys Are Struggling and What We Can Do About It," released Wednesday by TED Books.
(CNN) -- Is the overuse of video games and pervasiveness of online porn causing the demise of guys?
Increasingly, researchers say yes, as young men become hooked on arousal, sacrificing their schoolwork and relationships in the pursuit of getting a tech-based buzz.
Every compulsive gambler, alcoholic or drug addict will tell you that they want increasingly more of a game or drink or drug in order to get the same quality of buzz.
Video game and porn addictions are different. They are "arousal addictions," where the attraction is in the novelty, the variety or the surprise factor of the content. Sameness is soon habituated; newness heightens excitement. In traditional drug arousal, conversely, addicts want more of the same cocaine or heroin or favorite food.
The consequences could be dramatic: The excessive use of video games and online porn in pursuit of the next thing is creating a generation of risk-averse guys who are unable (and unwilling) to navigate the complexities and risks inherent to real-life relationships, school and employment.
Stories about this degeneration are rampant: In 2005, Seungseob Lee, a South Korean man, went into cardiac arrest after playing "StarCraft" for nearly 50 continuous hours. In 2009, MTV's "True Life" highlighted the story of a man named Adam whose wife kicked him out of their home -- they have four kids together -- because he couldn't stop watching porn.
Dr. Philip Zimbardo and Nikita Duncan are the authors of \
Dr. Philip Zimbardo and Nikita Duncan are the authors of "The Demise of Guys."
Norwegian mass murder suspect Anders Behring Breivik reported during his trial that he prepared his mind and body for his marksman-focused shooting of 77 people by playing "World of Warcraft" for a year and then "Call of Duty" for 16 hours a day.
Research into this area goes back a half-century.
Breivik claims killing was 'necessary'
In 1954, researchers Peter Milner and James Olds discovered the pleasure center of the brain. In their experiments, an electrical current was sent to the limbic system of a rat's brain whenever it moved to a certain area of its cage. The limbic sytem is a portion of the brain that controls things like emotion, behavior and memory. The researchers hypothesized that if the stimulation to the limbic system were unpleasant, the rats would stay away from that part of the cage.
Surprisingly, the rats returned to that portion of the cage again and again, despite the sensation.
In later experiments, when they were allowed to push a stimulation lever on their own accord, they self-stimulated hundreds of times per hour. Even when given the option to eat when hungry or to stimulate the pleasure center, the rats chose the stimulation until they were physically exhausted and on the brink of death.
This new kind of human addictive arousal traps users into an expanded present hedonistic time zone. Past and future are distant and remote as the present moment expands to dominate everything. That present scene is totally dynamic, with images changing constantly.
A recent study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that "regular porn users are more likely to report depression and poor physical health than nonusers are. ... The reason is that porn may start a cycle of isolation. ... Porn may become a substitute for healthy face-to-face interactions, social or sexual."
Similarly, video games also go wrong when the person playing them is desensitized to reality and real-life interactions with others.
Violence in video games is often synonymous with success. Children with more of a propensity for aggression are more attracted to violent video media, but violent media, in turn, can also make them more aggressive. This could be related to the fact that most video games reward players for violent acts, often permitting them to move to the next level in a game.
Yet research reported in the Annual Review of Public Health suggests a link between violent video games and real-life aggression: Given the opportunity, both adults and children were more aggressive after playing violent games. And people who identify themselves with violent perpetrators in video games are able to take aggressive action while playing that role, reinforcing aggressive behavior.
Young men -- who play video games and use porn the most -- are being digitally rewired in a totally new way that demands constant stimulation. And those delicate, developing brains are being catered to by video games and porn-on-demand, with a click of the mouse, in endless variety.
Such new brains are also totally out of sync in traditional school classes, which are analog, static and interactively passive. Academics are based on applying past lessons to future problems, on planning, on delaying gratifications, on work coming before play and on long-term goal-setting.
Guys are also totally out of sync in romantic relationships, which tend to build gradually and subtly, and require interaction, sharing, developing trust and suppression of lust at least until "the time is right."
Less extreme cases of arousal addiction may go unnoticed or be diagnosed as an attention or mood disorder. But we are in a national, and perhaps global, Guy Disaster Mode that needs to be noticed and solutions advanced to fix a totally novel phenomenon, which will only increase in intensity and breadth without the concerted efforts of educators, gamemakers, parents, guys and gals.
It's time to press play and get started reversing these trends.
Queue me at my desk, laughing my ass off, and scene.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/25 20:46:59
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 20:50:41
Subject: 'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Whats that scientists? Too much of something can have an adverse effect on my health? Well gee, thanks guys. I never would have known that had you not spent thousands or even millions of dollars researching the subject...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 20:51:18
Subject: 'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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I think that's nonsense me. Over protective sissy parents endlessly spoiling their fething brats are what is killing guys!
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We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 20:55:53
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Kid_Kyoto
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Well, I mean, on one hand, I DO notice that my friends and myself tend to rush headfirst into the depths of gaming almost to the point of escapism sometimes, but on the other hand, I view that as solid evidence of something wrong with society and the world around me, not myself, cause I'm awesome.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 20:58:10
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
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TLDR, playing cod & watching pyronecrobeastiality
Love the juxtaposition of "the attraction is in the novelty, the variety or the surprise factor" that creates "risk averse" people.
Its almost as if psychology is a pseudo-science, that could never actually experiment properly because there is no 'control.'
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/25 21:01:29
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 20:58:28
Subject: 'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Mr. Breikviek is a most reputable witness. I cannot conceive of how one would not find him a typical representative of a generation.
Unless of course he is a fething loon.
Who can say?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 21:02:25
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Kid_Kyoto
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Kilkrazy wrote:Mr. Breikviek is a most reputable witness. I cannot conceive of how one would not find him a typical representative of a generation.
Unless of course he is a fething loon.
Who can say?
Clearly, we are all mass murderers.
Reminds me of my favorite quote though:
If Pac-Man had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music. -Marcus Brigstocke Automatically Appended Next Post: I think I would also be interested in some actual female weigh-in on this; not that you'll find much of it on Dakka, but it would be interesting to get the "other side's" opinion, especially from those who are a part of this little community.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/05/25 21:05:34
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 21:10:23
Subject: 'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.
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The reaction in this forum to that story was rather predictable.
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Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 21:12:20
Subject: 'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress
Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.
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mattyrm wrote: I think that's nonsense me. Over protective sissy parents endlessly spoiling their fething brats are what is killing guys! 
Nah its the up-their bottom social service 'professionals' attitudes that infect society, don't do this/that because its "inappropriate".
You cant teach children respect or anything resembling discipline, and kids exploit that. While the dogmatised 'professionals' don't have a clue ironically the children do. They know what to say and how to say it, they know the buttons to press and how to get away with stuff scot free. Children naturally have a short term mindset, which is why corporal punishment, a little bit of pain or embarassment, is effective. The kids themsleves know it works, its the 'professionals' who dont. By a time a child turns ten his or her moral outlook is fixed, under the new dogmas that moral outlook is based on shirking responsibility, a grasping for themselves. They grow up not giving a feth and always having an excuse. Well done guys.
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n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 21:16:11
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Zealous Sin-Eater
Montreal
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Yeah, this is unfortunately what happens when experimental psychologists are left to interpret the data they have collected. Also, this is almost sexist, although I don't know if it's sexist toward men or women. An increasing number of women are getting into both porn and video games. And it is for the goddamn best Its almost as if psychology is a pseudo-science, that could never actually experiment properly because there is no 'control.' That was true 100 years ago, not anymore. Both phenomenology and the psychology of the school of Wurzburg establised scientific means of introspective analysis. But psychology (just like any new science) is indeed incredibly prone to making stupid affirmation like these. Blame it on the stupid practionners, not on the practice.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/25 21:20:08
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 21:17:45
Subject: 'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I don't understand this article.
*goes back to watching porn*
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 21:25:27
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Told ya....
GG
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 21:28:52
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
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Kovnik Obama wrote:
Its almost as if psychology is a pseudo-science, that could never actually experiment properly because there is no 'control.'
That was true 100 years ago, not anymore. Both phenomenology and the psychology of the school of Wurzburg establised scientific means of introspective analysis. But psychology (just like any new science) is indeed incredibly prone to making stupid affirmation like these. Blame it on the stupid practionners, not on the practice.
I was being a bit facetious, certainly Freud's work is a bit questionable, what with only really using Jewish women with hysteria and being a massive coke fiend. But modern psychology, for the most part, seems pretty spot on.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 21:30:56
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Zealous Sin-Eater
Montreal
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generalgrog wrote:Told ya....
GG
Porn (of the softer kind) is a great tool in sexual psychology. Video games increase our likelyhood to survive in the post-apocalyptic wasteland.
I see no problem here.
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[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 21:34:29
Subject: 'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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No, GG, what you told us was that looking at pictures of naked ladies makes baby Jesus cry, or some other equally well-thought out and sensible argument that basically amounts to 'because... God.'
You don't get to be smug, particularly because an argument could be made that religious observance is a form of mental and physical 'addiction'.
in other news, moral panic, 'reefer madness', reds under the bed etc, etc.
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Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 21:40:46
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Zealous Sin-Eater
Montreal
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Although, I have to mention, exposure to porn is proven to desensitize (sp?) to violence for a short amount of hours after.
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[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 21:45:29
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Kovnik Obama wrote:Although, I have to mention, exposure to porn is proven to desensitize (sp?) to violence for a short amount of hours after.
This I can agree with, in my experiences porn is always followed by a furious beating.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 21:51:11
Subject: 'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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I imagine that 'proven' is probably a little strong, Kovnik. Just saying.
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Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 21:54:17
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Zealous Sin-Eater
Montreal
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As much as there can be any proof in human studies. At least it's worth more factually than anything obtained through cultural studies
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/25 21:56:03
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 22:05:59
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Brutal Black Orc
The Empire State
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World of Warcraft > Life
Free internet porn > dating a girl
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 22:29:35
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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Kovnik Obama wrote:As much as there can be any proof in human studies. At least it's worth more factually than anything obtained through cultural studies 
You could always just admit that you used the wrong word, instead of being an arsehole...
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Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 22:47:23
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Zealous Sin-Eater
Montreal
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I didn't use the wrong word. There are objective facts known about consciousness, for exemple, children up until age 5-6 will, regardless of any subjective incidents, be under the impression that a group of sticks, once split in two groups, do not retain the same amount of sticks, but actually has seen an increase. This is a known fact of genetic epistemology (or Piagetist psychology). This has been positively tested across the world for the last 80 years or so. Like it's been tested rigorously since the 90s that adult minds exposed to pornography (and not erotism) will retain effects of 'numbness' toward violence for a few hours after.
Because your field of study doesn't prepare you to handle objective facts about the human mind doesn't give you any right to attack those that are in such a field.
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[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/25 23:09:34
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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daedalus wrote:I think I would also be interested in some actual female weigh-in on this; not that you'll find much of it on Dakka, but it would be interesting to get the "other side's" opinion, especially from those who are a part of this little community.
Personally, I think "the demise of guys" is just idiotic scaremongering buy men who feel a need to make themselves feel more manly. A real man has no such insecurities. He could go in to a gay pride parade wearing a pink shirt with seven rainbows on it and crowd surf his way in to a hair salon then get back in home in time to make dinner to his wife, and then upon reflecting on what he did (in bed with his wife, who is asleep from the afterglow of intimacy), he thinks to himself: "Man, I love being so manly. I should try needle point tomorrow." A man who is afraid of his non-masculine (or, dare I say it, feminine!) side is a pussy, not a man.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/05/25 23:15:13
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/26 00:32:37
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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Melissia wrote:daedalus wrote:I think I would also be interested in some actual female weigh-in on this; not that you'll find much of it on Dakka, but it would be interesting to get the "other side's" opinion, especially from those who are a part of this little community.
Personally, I think "the demise of guys" is just idiotic scaremongering buy men who feel a need to make themselves feel more manly.
A real man has no such insecurities. He could go in to a gay pride parade wearing a pink shirt with seven rainbows on it and crowd surf his way in to a hair salon then get back in home in time to make dinner to his wife, and then upon reflecting on what he did (in bed with his wife, who is asleep from the afterglow of intimacy), he thinks to himself: "Man, I love being so manly. I should try needle point tomorrow."
A man who is afraid of his non-masculine (or, dare I say it, feminine!) side is a pussy, not a man.
One time I asked a really homophobic guy out on a date (I'm straight, FYI). His response was hilarious. He freaked out and started swearing and yelling and threatened to kill me (I was betting on the fact that we wouldn't get physical, because I'm pretty scrawny and would lose in any fair fight). The point being, it was exceedingly hilarious. I should've filmed it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/26 00:48:40
Subject: 'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Wing Commander
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You know what it has actually taught me a few moves in bed, sexually arouses your partner if they like watching it during and is a great stress/ frustration relief.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/26 00:52:45
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Zealous Sin-Eater
Montreal
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A bit Off Topic, but one of my old roomate (another philosophy student, but of the ultra conservative variety) was a self-pubized homophobe (he did so too in classes).
Funny enough, his favourite 'practical joke' was to attempt to ''mock-rape'' me...
... yeah
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[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/26 01:01:56
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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Kovnik Obama wrote:. But psychology (just like any new science) is indeed incredibly prone to making stupid affirmation like these. Blame it on the stupid practionners, not on the practice.
Its not usually the practitioners who are at fault (although they often are to varying degrees) but how its there findings are reported by the media , with little if any scrutiny. The prime example of this is how foods X,Y and Z cause/cure cancer.
As to this particular 'study' I am most impressed on how it seems to be based upon 50 year old experiments on the effects of artifitaily stimulating the pleasure centres of Rats and assuming (for some reason) that everyone who watches porn or plays games are addicted to them. I hope the Nobel commitee knows about this groundbreaking research.
Alternatively its yet another poorly researched/overtly biased piece of rabble rousing designed to sell papers and this guys book.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/26 01:04:17
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/26 01:02:38
Subject: Re:'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
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Kovnik Obama wrote:A bit Off Topic, but one of my old roomate (another philosophy student, but of the ultra conservative variety) was a self-pubized homophobe (he did so too in classes).
Funny enough, his favourite 'practical joke' was to attempt to ''mock-rape'' me...
... yeah 
Don't need to be a psychologist to figure out what's going on there. The overstating his viewpoint alone should set off a few alarm bells. Automatically Appended Next Post: Palindrome wrote:
Its not usually the practitioners who are at fault (although they often are to varying degrees) but how its there findings are reported, with little if any scrutiny, by the media. The prime example is how foods X,Y and Z cause/cure cancer.
MMR anyone?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/26 01:04:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/26 01:05:34
Subject: 'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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He did manage to get that one past the Lancet's editorial commitee
I am not saying that the originiators of such dubious research are blameless, but they are not the only guilty party.
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The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/26 01:08:41
Subject: 'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
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Palindrome wrote:He did manage to get that one past the Lancet's editorial commitee
I am not saying that the originiators of such dubious research are blameless, but they are not the only guilty party.
Even now some people still believe it causes autism, thats down to the media. MMR = bad, loads of coverage. MMR = good, and we were talking gak, surprisingly little coverage.
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