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I was watching a game in town the other day and i saw a mass of 125 Rough Riders fighting 75 ThunderWolf Cav.............. About 50 Thunder wolf's and 35 Rough Riders died in the Charge on Each other ( they somehow charged each other ) and i was thinking , in a Mass Calvalry War , who do you would think win ( TT style ) Rough Riders or Thunder wolf cav , sounds silly i know but for humors sake

On original charge?

Since there'd me more, Rough Riders. Str 5 Power Weapons, hooray!

Considering those Strength 5 power weapons still need 4s to wound? I think I'll give it to the multiwound models with S5, T5, rending, 3+ armor and way, way more wargear options.

Given that the RR's are only worth anythign on a charge, and that they're T3 5+sv 1 W models, at what, 11pts each? Each TWC is T5 2W with a 3+sv and what like 4 attacks on a charge? The RR's aren't much of a match, 125 are ~1300pts while 75 TWC's are 3750pts before any gear.

Rough riders have a decent chance of wiping out their own points value in unupgraded thunderwolves if they get the charge. If the wolves get the charge they'll win, and if they bring stormshields or have a significant edge in points they can weather the initial charge and things get ugly.

By your numbers Kasrkin and Vaktathi, if they were of actual equal points value, the RR would absolutely floor the TW's if they charged them. A 11:50 base point value ratio with the RR's still in favor winning on the charge means there's virtually no conceivable points value they will ever have equal footing on even with said gear because it just means more RR's can be fielded. The onus is on the TW's to get into a position to counter charge the RR's, negate their special attack, and then slaughter them.

DemetriDominov wrote:By your numbers Kasrkin and Vaktathi, if they were of actual equal points value, the RR would absolutely floor the TW's if they charged them. A 11:50 base point value ratio with the RR's still in favor winning on the charge means there's virtually no conceivable points value they will ever have equal footing on even with said gear because it just means more RR's can be fielded. The onus is on the TW's to get into a position to counter charge the RR's, negate their special attack, and then slaughter them.

The problem is that outside of their epic charge, rough riders are literally just guardsmen, T 3, S 3, A 1, and their hunting lances are one go only on the charge. I imagine that in such a situation the RRs would kill 70%+ of the thunderwolf cavalry in the charge and either be killed afterwards and rundown or just be engaged in a bloody grind where the TWC wins due to better stats outside of the charge.

I Agree with this , Thats what i think makes it slighly even is the fact that RRs would kill many Thunder wolf in the charge but then get their asses haneded to them

Buttons wrote:I imagine that in such a situation the RRs would kill 70%+ of the thunderwolf cavalry in the charge and either be killed afterwards and rundown or just be engaged in a bloody grind where the TWC wins due to better stats outside of the charge.

They would probably kill closer to 40% if the Wolves have no storm shields.
2 attacks on the charge at WS3 = 1 hit
1 S5 attack at T5 = .5 hits
So for every two Rough Riders you're going to cause one wound, math dictates. 125 Rough Riders makes 250 attacks will cause 62.5 wounds, enough to kill 31 Thunderwolves if no storm shields are involved. That is well under half of the Thunderwolves engaged in this assault. Now, if we were going to go for a charge where both sides had the same number of points, the Rough Riders could make a bigger impact.

Brother SRM wrote:

Buttons wrote:I imagine that in such a situation the RRs would kill 70%+ of the thunderwolf cavalry in the charge and either be killed afterwards and rundown or just be engaged in a bloody grind where the TWC wins due to better stats outside of the charge.

They would probably kill closer to 40% if the Wolves have no storm shields.
2 attacks on the charge at WS3 = 1 hit
1 S5 attack at T5 = .5 hits
So for every two Rough Riders you're going to cause one wound, math dictates. 125 Rough Riders makes 250 attacks will cause 62.5 wounds, enough to kill 31 Thunderwolves if no storm shields are involved. That is well under half of the Thunderwolves engaged in this assault. Now, if we were going to go for a charge where both sides had the same number of points, the Rough Riders could make a bigger impact.

If they are the same point cost the thunderwolves would be slaughtered. With storm shields one can field 8 rough riders for the price of one TWC meaning 16 attacks and an average of 1.333 unsaved wounds per TWC, while the TWC will kill only 2 RRs in return, the RRs will suffer more casualties, but the TWC will suffer a much higher point loss since every TWC is worth 8 times as much as a rough rider (if the TWC has a storm shield).

Buttons wrote:
If they are the same point cost the thunderwolves would be slaughtered. With storm shields one can field 8 rough riders for the price of one TWC meaning 16 attacks and an average of 1.333 unsaved wounds per TWC, while the TWC will kill only 2 RRs in return, the RRs will suffer more casualties, but the TWC will suffer a much higher point loss since every TWC is worth 8 times as much as a rough rider (if the TWC has a storm shield).

That I'll believe; in my case I was going on the numbers from the OP, but a grand cavalry clash with an equal worth of Rough Riders getting the charge would probably go the way you said. I'd love to see it, frankly!