Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm not a Trekkie, but I like Next Generation and loved Deep Space Nine. I've gotten to episode twelve of Voyager. Boy, this has been some hard going: bad acting; unlikeable, uninteresting characters; poor plots. Does it get better? I want to be thorough in my nerd-i-hood, but there is seven seasons of this, and each season is pretty long!

It gets better when Jeri Ryan shows up, then it's a slow slide to madness.

The series finale was the best part by far, literally and figuratively. ZING!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm hoping that with the current Star Trek films, maybe if we're lucky we'll get a reboot of TOS, and then going down the line through the other franchises.

I'm hoping there is a cultural renaissance and we start coming up with brilliant, innovative ideas. Now I need more wine. A lot more.

I didn't think Voyager was bad, but apparently it takes very little to really entertain me. However, the finale to Voyager was So Incredibly Stupid.

It's gets OK...it does not get good. I still happened to like it.

Voyager does not get better.


Other than the episode with Kurtwood Smith, the entire series is borderline unwatchable.

LordofHats wrote:The series finale was the best part by far, literally and figuratively. ZING!

Lord of Hats? More like Lord of Lies.... Belial! :p

Gasp.

I've been discovered. Quickly Bowlderderby, to the Hatcopter!

I loved Voyager, but I have a thing for "Robinson" stories.

I found it was pretty average at best until the Borg showed up.
The first few seasons seemed like a bit of a waste from my perspective; the Seska sub plot was the only interesting story arc that I can remember from those days, and I'm not sure there were very many episodes featuring that.
Also, several of the main characters failed to live up to their potential, it's like there was a great template waiting to be built upon but they only dipped their toes in the water, so to speak.

Like all Star Trek, it has episodes that are pretty good pieces of stand alone science fiction. And, like all Star Trek, it has episodes that are bland, or just plain stupid. The exact ratio varies from season to season, like it does in each Star Trek series.

The problem with Voyager is that it unlike the other series it has a chronic lack of characters that would make the poor episodes more engaging. I mean, basically there's the Doctor, who is one of Trek's best characters, and then there's 7 of 9's ass*, and then a bunch of completely interchangeable people with not one distinguishing characteristic between the lot of them.

I watched Voyager up until the second last series, and I could tell you B'Elanna sometimes gets angry, Paris likes pulp sci-fi, Tuvok says 'logically' at the start of lots of sentences even when he's about to say something that isn't logical, and Janeway is a smug bitch, but that probably wasn't how she was meant to come across.

I probably wouldn't bother, if I was you.




*That's actually pretty unfair to 7 of 9 in the series, because she was actually an interesting character in her own right. In fact, they really did her a disservice in putting her in that jumpsuit, as it distracted from a pretty intersting character. Its a problem that slowly crept into Trek, that the show could produce interestin alien characters, but the Federation humans just got more and more dull. I mean, I quite liked a lot about Enterprise, but I couldn't tell you a single defining characteristic of any crew member.

No. No it does not.

Seek out B5 or the new Dr Who.

Not really. Only the doctor is relly worth it. Just find a list of "episodes featuring centering on the doctor" and watch those.

New Dr. Who over Voyager?

Madness. Clearly Voyager wins every time.

Species 8472 and the Borg episodes are worth watching back to back and work quite well as a stand alone film... kinda.

sebster wrote:Like all Star Trek, it has episodes that are pretty good pieces of stand alone science fiction. And, like all Star Trek, it has episodes that are bland, or just plain stupid. The exact ratio varies from season to season, like it does in each Star Trek series.

The problem with Voyager is that it unlike the other series it has a chronic lack of characters that would make the poor episodes more engaging. I mean, basically there's the Doctor, who is one of Trek's best characters, and then there's 7 of 9's ass*, and then a bunch of completely interchangeable people with not one distinguishing characteristic between the lot of them.

I watched Voyager up until the second last series, and I could tell you B'Elanna sometimes gets angry, Paris likes pulp sci-fi, Tuvok says 'logically' at the start of lots of sentences even when he's about to say something that isn't logical, and Janeway is a smug bitch, but that probably wasn't how she was meant to come across.

I probably wouldn't bother, if I was you.

Here's my problem, too. I figured the characters and the acting would get better as the season progressed. In STTNG, only Troy was really weak, and on STV, she would actually be a strong character by comparison.

It was kind of fun seeing the species that could kick the Borg's ass while they were in the middle of the "resistance is futile" speech.

There were quite a few great episodes, some real bad ones, but I admit to liking Voyager when I was younger. Not so keen now, but still enjoy at time.

Voyager does not get better. A few episodes are good like when 7 of double D finally shows up. Species 8472 where rather interesting. The doc always makes me smile and the two parter with kurtwood smith. I was just waiting for him to call his whole crew 'dumbasses' for not getting it right. Have I mentioned that I love Kurtwood Smith, robocop ftw

Voyager Summary: every other episode they find a short-cut back home but using it would violate the prime directive.

Cool the first time, BS the 50th. At some point, the crew would mutiny and just take the damn jump back home...

Voyager isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

The trick is not to watch the episodes back-to-back-to-back. They're not entertaining enough to really do that. And, by giving the episode your full attention, the plot holes are too noticeable.

Instead, watch an episode every 2-3 days while you're doing something else, like painting. It can provide that background noise and little bit of entertainment you need.

Voyager is a great show to watch when you can only give it 50% of your attention, as the characters are bland enough you don't get drawn in, and the plots are simplistic enough that you can follow it without paying close attention.

That's not the best endorsement - "It makes great background noise"...

Apart from some episodes I found it a bit tedious and not engaging. Even the episodes with the Borg were disappointing because by that point in Trek the 'threat' of the Borg had been watered down so much they were not much more than one of the other regular enemies. I remember watching Best of Both Worlds when it was first on, and everyone was cacking it at the sight of one cube. Then in Voyager they face off several at a time. Oh well, it's the inevitable consequence of having an 'invincible' foe appear multiple times which is why ST:TNG tended not to use them much. And of those one was a character piece (Hugh) and the other featured rogue Borg, not the actual collective.

Grakmar wrote:Voyager isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

The trick is not to watch the episodes back-to-back-to-back. They're not entertaining enough to really do that. And, by giving the episode your full attention, the plot holes are too noticeable.

You know, that actually sounds like some sound advice. I found the same to be true with "24"; I loved it when I saw it once a week, but the Netflix marathons really make the light shine through the holes.

sebster wrote:Like all Star Trek, it has episodes that are pretty good pieces of stand alone science fiction. And, like all Star Trek, it has episodes that are bland, or just plain stupid. The exact ratio varies from season to season, like it does in each Star Trek series.

I'm gonna subscribe to this statement, too. A few episodes were really good, but all in all I still think that TNG was easily the best Star Trek show ever. Unfortunately, over the decades of Trek, explosions simply became more important than story.

Anyhow, if you want a good laugh, I recommend sfdebris' reviews. I don't agree with all of them, but they are quite simply fun to watch:
http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated-reviews/voy-macrocosm-review-4845412

sebster wrote:I mean, I quite liked a lot about Enterprise, but I couldn't tell you a single defining characteristic of any crew member.

Tucker was a Redneck.

On a sidenote: it's a shame ENT was cancelled just as it was beginning to get interesting again. The proposed story arcs for the 5th season were quite promising and would've answered a lot of open questions. Not to mention their idea of a Mirror Universe miniseries. How cool would that have been?

PS: There's no sci-fi show better than B5.

Lynata wrote:

PS: There's no sci-fi show better than B5.

Except for STS9.

I just watched Ds9 and voyager all the way through on netflix and I liked Voyager more for some reason. I remember when they first aired I hated Voyager and loved DS9.

I will say this as a trek fan, Babylon 5 is better then all of the trek shows, so if you have not watched that I would put down Vyger and pick up B5.

thunderingjove wrote:

Grakmar wrote:Voyager isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

The trick is not to watch the episodes back-to-back-to-back. They're not entertaining enough to really do that. And, by giving the episode your full attention, the plot holes are too noticeable.

You know, that actually sounds like some sound advice. I found the same to be true with "24"; I loved it when I saw it once a week, but the Netflix marathons really make the light shine through the holes.

In short, Voyager ain't too bad once you lower your standards far enough.

Deathshead420 wrote:I just watched Ds9 and voyager all the way through on netflix and I liked Voyager more for some reason. I remember when they first aired I hated Voyager and loved DS9.

I will say this as a trek fan, Babylon 5 is better then all of the trek shows, so if you have not watched that I would put down Vyger and pick up B5.

Except for the occasional Dawson-Creek-esque speeches, B5 is a fine show.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

In short, Voyager ain't too bad once you lower your standards far enough.

Sounds like my love life.

thunderingjove wrote:Except for STS9.

Well, that's your opinion.

I liked DS9 a lot, but unlike with B5 it did have a number of episodes that were just plain boring, so to me it's not as good. Furthermore, there was a change of direction that ultimately seemed to turn the Starfleet away from what it was supposed to be all those decades before, and more into a modern military force conforming to cliché sci-fi. It was done fairly well if you look at how it ended up - but it just wasn't the Starfleet anymore, and it created some unnecessary contradictions. As someone who values consistency in a setting (both in style as well as detail), this was ultimately a minor downside for me, too.

Also: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Babylon_5#Babylon_5_and_Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine

It gets better, the series ends, and it is never made into any movies. The End