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What do you think would have happened if the Emperor had won the duel with Horus and lived? (sorry if this is already a post...) How might the Imperium be different?

The imperium of man would have en mass attacked the eye of terror and mercilessly slaughtered the forces of chaos. Then it would have united the galaxy under man's rule. Then they would prosper in a new age of technology. But happiness doesnt sell in 40k i guess

Even if the emperor had lived wouldn't he still have had to sit on the golden throne? The throne completely obliterated malcador the sigillite and someone of immense psychic power would be needed to hold the demons at bay. Don't forget that Magnus tore a huge friggin hole in the emprah's web way. If he would have lived I think things may have ended up worse. The constant worship the emperor currently gets increase his strength in the warp.

If he had lived he could have fixed the hole.

Granted he would still spend his time there to guide the Astronomican but at least he would be interactive.

That's true. If I've interpreted the canon correctly, his plan for the imperial truth was to ween humanity off religion in an effort to cripple the chaos gods. However when half of his legions went over to the away team his plan kinda went out the window. If he were alive and not worshipped would he be strong enough to actually face the now much stronger chaos gods? Idk but I would doubt it. Plus it would be a pretty big imbalance for the other races. Oh you have an avatar or a carnifex? Well we got the friggin Emprah!
In all seriousness I'm a huge IoM fan but I hope GW doesn't bring him back. It doesn't really fit in the whole grim dark theme. Not every story can have a happy ending.

Just because the Emperor would still be alive dosen't automatically fix the issue of Necrons, Tyranids, Orks, and all the other baddies...

IGdude354 wrote:Just because the Emperor would still be alive dosen't automatically fix the issue of Necrons, Tyranids, Orks, and all the other baddies...

I agree with the orks and necrons but if the emperor was able to fix and use the web way project than the astronomican would be shut down. And aren't the bugs attracted to that? I may be mistaken as I don't have that codex and the bugs never really interested me

9 united legions would have showed the nids the meaning of nom nom, i mean a single chapter killed a whole hive fleet (with help) so a million ultrasmurfs... lol nids lol

I am not so sure. It might take him a few hundred if not a few thousand years to "fix" the IoM. Tech is way lower and less understood then last time he was awake. More then half the SM's Genseeds have defects it seems and even they are low on tech, using hand me downs and patch work gear. And I am not so sure he would even reuse them. I get the feeling that after the HH, he seems them as flawed as they were not resistant enough to Chaos. I would see him using them but phasing them out with some kind of replacement like he did the thunder warriors.

Hunterindarkness wrote:I am not so sure. It might take him a few hundred if not a few thousand years to "fix" the IoM. Tech is way lower and less understood then last time he was awake. More then half the SM's Genseeds have defects it seems and even they are low on tech, using hand me downs and patch work gear. And I am not so sure he would even reuse them. I get the feeling that after the HH, he seems them as flawed as they were not resistant enough to Chaos. I would see him using them but phasing them out with some kind of replacement like he did the thunder warriors.

Yup

The Primarchs and the Space Marines, like the Thunder Warriors, were only created to get a job done. They are a disposable asset. Once Mankind had been truly united and the Emperor achieved his goal, he would have pulled the plug on them.

His only concern is with humanity.

Hunterindarkness wrote:I would see him using them but phasing them out with some kind of replacement like he did the thunder warriors.

Don't think he replaced them, was it not just a redesign of armour as Iacton Qruze fought in the Unification wars?

Colin747 wrote:

Hunterindarkness wrote:I would see him using them but phasing them out with some kind of replacement like he did the thunder warriors.

Don't think he replaced them, was it not just a redesign of armour as Iacton Qruze fought in the Unification wars?

Outcast dead suggest otherwise.

The Emperor is a bit of a git apparently.

Guilliman disagrees with you.

Guilliman: ”My father does not make mistakes of that magnitude. Space marines excel at warfare because they were designed to excel at everything”

Guilliman: “Each of you will become a leader, a ruler, the master of your world and, because there is no more fighting to be done, you will bend your transhuman talents to governance and culture”

I think Know no fear pretty much illustrated how space marines had the potential to be so much more than simple killing machines.

Were as the Thunder warriors were too barbaric and unable to coexist with humans.
They had to be removed one way or another.

Redcruisair wrote:Guilliman disagrees with you.

Guilliman: ”My father does not make mistakes of that magnitude. Space marines excel at warfare because they were designed to excel at everything”

Guilliman: “Each of you will become a leader, a ruler, the master of your world and, because there is no more fighting to be done, you will bend your transhuman talents to governance and culture”

I think Know no fear pretty much illustrated how space marines had the potential to be so much more than simple killing machines.

Were as the Thunder warriors were too barbaric and unable to coexist with humans.
They had to be removed one way or another.

Guilliman likes to think that doesn't he, that they will serve a purpose once the crusade is done. Guilliman, being one of the things to have served its purpose, wouldn't have much say in the matter though.

Actually I think his word as a primarch counts for a great deal.
Especially when it comes to deciding matters that has a lasting effect on the empire (Nikaea remember?)

At the very least he provides us readers with a new perspective regarding the future fate of the Astartes. A promising future that does not look so bleak compared to the tale of the Thunder warriors given to us by the crime lord Babu.

This is slight off topic but does Babu not give you the impression that he is complete and utterly insane? With such a bad reputation he has I don’t think he is worthy of anyone’s trust really…

Redcruisair wrote:Actually I think his word as a primarch counts for a great deal.
Especially when it comes to deciding matters that has a lasting effect on the empire (Nikaea remember?)

So by default the other Primarchs words should be trusted and believed? Heh, Nikaea doesn't really matter as some chose to obey it, other didn't.

Redcruisair wrote:This is slight off topic but does Babu not give you the impression that he is complete and utterly insane? With such a bad reputation he has I don’t think he is worthy of anyone’s trust rally…

In comparison to other genetically modified killing machines?

No. The astartes were created to be different than the thunder warrios. Smaller, more agile and free thinkers. They were meant to have a place in the galaxy after the crusade.

You misinterpreted my first comment. I did not mean that the word of a primarch should be trusted by default. What I meant to say is that Guilliman and any other primarch have the political power to effect the decisions made in the empire.


“In comparison to other genetically modified killing machines?”

Hell yes! Many space marines have through the series shown some degree of emotional attachment to the humans they fight for.
The purpose of the space marines was to liberate the humans from the clutches of xenos, as well as pave the way for a galaxy ruled by humans.
(This is why I believe they are destined for greater things in the end.)

Now compare this to the Thunder warriors and how they have been described so far in the books.
At worst they are seen as terrifying monsters devoid of any human emotion (fits perfectly with Babu).
At best they are described in legends as warriors who sacrificed themselves in an effort to achieve unity over Terra (space marine seems to be found of this tale at least.)

I don’t think it is fair to compare the Astartes with the thunder warriors. They are two different instruments created for different purposes.

Grey Templar wrote:If he had lived he could have fixed the hole.

Granted he would still spend his time there to guide the Astronomican but at least he would be interactive.

Didn't the Thousands Sons Horus Heresy book say the parts that Magnus destroyed were irreplaceable?

It does not matter what the plan was. That plan fell apart when half of them turned. If he woke back up now, he has maybe a million of them and a good number of them are defective in some way due to mutations in the genseeed.

The Emp is kinda an ass, he is a right bastard and would have no problem discarding his flawed and failed "super humans". He might try again but I think he would be done with SM's 1.0

So as the bugs are attracted to the beacon, and if the emperor was alive would it not be stronger? This would surely lead to the bugs coming quicker and in greater numbers, then tere would be trouble.

Do not think it would grew any stronger. It worked before he was on it and after he was on it. I do not think the nids can come any faster, they simply do not have the means of going faster. They come at the same pace they always would have came, they are locked on to the galaxy now.

Brother Thomas wrote:No. The astartes were created to be different than the thunder warrios. Smaller, more agile and free thinkers. They were meant to have a place in the galaxy after the crusade.

Yeah, they were created differently. They were mass produced and were created to wage war amongst the different planets in space. The Emperor created the Thunder Warriors for the conquest of Terra, nothing else. Space Marines place after the Crusade would be in the ground dead.

Redcruisair wrote:You misinterpreted my first comment. I did not mean that the word of a primarch should be trusted by default. What I meant to say is that Guilliman and any other primarch have the political power to effect the decisions made in the empire.

Yes, as do the other Primarchs. I'm not getting your meaning unfortunately.

Redcruisair wrote:

pilau rice wrote:In comparison to other genetically modified killing machines?”

Hell yes! Many space marines have through the series shown some degree of emotional attachment to the humans they fight for.
The purpose of the space marines was to liberate the humans from the clutches of xenos, as well as pave the way for a galaxy ruled by humans.
(This is why I believe they are destined for greater things in the end.)

Luna Wolves tearing arms off of Remembrancers, Iron Hands having contempt for anything that isn't made of metal. The Astartes fought because they were created to do so, any notion that they were fighting for anything else, including the benefit of mankind, is a by product of that.

Redcruisair wrote:Now compare this to the Thunder warriors and how they have been described so far in the books.
At worst they are seen as terrifying monsters devoid of any human emotion (fits perfectly with Babu).
At best they are described in legends as warriors who sacrificed themselves in an effort to achieve unity over Terra (space marine seems to be fond of this tale at least.)

I don’t think it is fair to compare the Astartes with the thunder warriors. They are two different instruments created for different purposes.

I think after your father, who you fought and bled for, destroyed your brothers and left you for dust, you would also be a bit cranky. Sure he is a bit nuts, he's lived way past his sell by date. They achieved unity over Terra, which they were created to do, much like the Astartes were created for the Crusade, they however failed, in more aspect than one.

Hunterindarkness wrote:
The Emp is kinda an ass, he is a right bastard and would have no problem discarding his flawed and failed "super humans". He might try again but I think he would be done with SM's 1.0

Ting ting ting, you're right!

Edits: Spelling and stuff

Well... I guess this is what I get for being an optimistic 40k fan

Space Marines he would have no use for, once the xenos were purged (still a lotta them out there). Primarchs on the other hand? Those I can see him keeping around, as his vassal-lords in the various segmentums, ruling in his name, and all that sort of thing that captures the feudal nature of 40K.

well wouldn't it be logical to keep at least one legion around? ( for peacekeeping) and maybe send the other legions to possibly work on expanding the IoM to other galaxies? I also don't think he would be able to keep the Primarchs happy while he exterminated their legions slowly...

Who says he would slowly exterminate their legions? He's the Emperor, he built them. For all we know, the "off button" for the SM might be in that box labeled "Terminus Decree".

Pilau Rice wrote:

Redcruisair wrote:Guilliman disagrees with you.

Guilliman: ”My father does not make mistakes of that magnitude. Space marines excel at warfare because they were designed to excel at everything”

Guilliman: “Each of you will become a leader, a ruler, the master of your world and, because there is no more fighting to be done, you will bend your transhuman talents to governance and culture”

I think Know no fear pretty much illustrated how space marines had the potential to be so much more than simple killing machines.

Were as the Thunder warriors were too barbaric and unable to coexist with humans.
They had to be removed one way or another.

Guilliman likes to think that doesn't he, that they will serve a purpose once the crusade is done. Guilliman, being one of the things to have served its purpose, wouldn't have much say in the matter though.

Even amongst the primarchs who were worried that they wouldn't have a place in the Imperium after the Great Crusade, most of them felt Guilliman was prepared for, perhaps even groomed for by the Emperor, a place there.

Some primarchs certainly did not. Curze, Angron, Russ, etc. They, and possibly their legionsm were likely to become anachronistic. Guilliman, out of all his brothers, was en emperor in his own right when the Emperor found him. There seems to be pretty distinct differences between the Space Marines and the Thunder Warriors. The Marines were groomed to be both physically peaked, but also mentally. They weren't going to be statesmen, but they were unlikely to be tossed aside. After all, any successful state will always need a military. But a civilized nation at peace needs a civilized one. The Thunder warriors didn't fit with the next evolution of the Emperor's plan. The Space Marines were as much part of the Emperor's vision as anything else. It wasn't like the end of the Great Crusade would be the end of warfare in the galaxy.

You guys are falling for the same lie that Chaos tricked Horus with, lol.

IGdude354 wrote:well wouldn't it be logical to keep at least one legion around? ( for peacekeeping) and maybe send the other legions to possibly work on expanding the IoM to other galaxies? I also don't think he would be able to keep the Primarchs happy while he exterminated their legions slowly...

Why would he need to?They failed and outlived their usefulness. They are small in number and many of the chapters have defects and the gear is old, little understood and sometimes ill kept. He crafted them, it is damned easy for him to replace them.

There would most likely not be an inquisition, and the idea of HOLY anything would not exist. as the emperor himself denied his godhood.