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Something I've seen all over ork fluff is that if orks believe in something, that it quite often is either true, or distorted to a degree to appear true, as the orks believe in it hard enough. However, just how far can they push this?

For example, a mekboy couldn't pick up a pipe, hand it to a boy and say "DIZ 'ERE'Z DA MEKZ SPESHUL!!! DUN WURRY, IT'LL CUT THRU DEM TIN GITZ NO PROBLEM!" and then have the boy proceed to cut through armor plate with it as easily as if it were a power weapon.

However, by the simple act of painting their vehicle red, they can make them go noticeably faster. Boyz painted purple of all colors, are much sneakier than boyz in other colors, etc.

So what's the "limit" for orks? Is it just what they're capable of believing in? For example, if enough of them truly believe that the "Mekz Speshul" really can cut through armor plate even though it's just a rusty pipe, would it really work? Or is there some sort of practical limit built in. I know mekz inventions regularly fail, sometimes with spectacular results, so obviously they can't make EVERYTHING work, but was it more a case that the boyz didn't believe in him, or just that that mek had a few screws loose?

I really don't know what to think on this one, anybody who could help me clear this up would be awesome.

If a single Ork believes it, it isn't enough. The more that do the more likely it is to work. But, I think they have to be unaware that they're trying to believe it works.

The pipe thing could work, but the mek would likely put some sharp bits on it then some electric gubbins, then it would work anyway.

They don't CHOOSE to believe if it works, if it LOOKS like it works, they will believe it and thus it will work.

It's a subconscious process.

Agree to all of the above. Orks aren't completely stupid, so the boyz would look at the guy with the pipe will probably tell the him that that's just a pipe and doubt it's usefulness, while the mek would have known it wouldn't work in the first place. However, a pipe with spiky bits and dangerous looking electric stuff might convince everyone that it might cut armor, even if it would even scratch the famous ork t-shirts if wielded by a human. In that case, the mek probably would believe in it working, too.

Nothing prevents a mek from handing a boy a pipe and tell him it can cut armor in order to get him killed. Dem Oddboyz are vicious like that.

I thought orks had technicians who were actually pretty intelligent? It's not all "paint 'em red and they go faster", there is actual technical knowledge that's shared and passed on to further generations.

Joey wrote:I thought orks had technicians who were actually pretty intelligent? It's not all "paint 'em red and they go faster", there is actual technical knowledge that's shared and passed on to further generations.

It's this, luck, and the combined belief of the orks in the area that the machine will work.

Joey wrote:there is actual technical knowledge that's shared and passed on to further generations.

Actually, it's usually not shared and passed on. When an ork is born as a mek, he already has the knowledge to build sluggas, shootas, trukks, battlewagons or stompas. Someone implanted that knowledge in them, the orks call them "Da Brainboyz". Theories who those brainboyz were range from the ancients, a mysterious extinct race, over the eldar, to snotlings.

Some meks grow exceptionally smart and cunning, up to the point where the IoM is willing to sacrifice entire guard platoons and dozens of space marines, just to take that one mek down (Source: Imperal Armour 8).

Jidmah wrote:Agree to all of the above. Orks aren't completely stupid, so the boyz would look at the guy with the pipe will probably tell the him that that's just a pipe and doubt it's usefulness, while the mek would have known it wouldn't work in the first place. However, a pipe with spiky bits and dangerous looking electric stuff might convince everyone that it might cut armor, even if it would even scratch the famous ork t-shirts if wielded by a human. In that case, the mek probably would believe in it working, too.

Nothing prevents a mek from handing a boy a pipe and tell him it can cut armor in order to get him killed. Dem Oddboyz are vicious like that.

Yeah I know the mek boys are pretty smart (for orks at least).

What I'm talking about is what is the limit to their whole "believe it and it works thing".

For example single ork believes in a pipe cutting through armor, nothing happens. A hundred boys believe it nothing happens. Is there ever a tipping point where just beliefa lone will make it work? Say a million orks or something. You know, where so many orks believe it it doesn't matter how crazy the idea is, it will work anyways. Red making stuff going faster would be a good example. By itself, the paint adds nothing. But when the orks get a hold of it, suddenly it can go faster. Just how many orks does it take believing in that to make it work?

I think you got a wrong picture of mekboys. They are highly skilled technicians but they can't explain how it works to someone else.

To make it simple: They get a nice idea what they want to build and then start to tape and bolt things together that they subconciously know will get the desired result if the waaaghfield is strong enough.


Now on the waaaghfield effect:

I think it is some sort of reality suppression effect.
Let's say mekboy A sees an aircraft of the Imperial Guard, he may now want to build one too.

His first idea of nailing some steelplates to a gretchkin will obviously not work.

The next try will be a looted airplane but as we all know crashed airplanes aren't very easy to fix. So the finished fightabomba may be a bit to heavy to actually lift of (too much weapons) and the fuel line is to small to get enough juice to the engine. But as the mekboy has seen the plane fly and painted it red it will work. The plane will use more fuel then it could fit through the fuel line and will randomly stall the engine but it will fly.

Now the same mekboy built a few hundred of those fightabombas and the waaagh is extremly potent now ( think Armageddon level). The vey same airplanes will now work extremely well. A proppeller-driven plane will get to low supersonic speed and a crude pice of tin will help the flyboy aim at targets out of visual range.

MrMoustaffa wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Agree to all of the above. Orks aren't completely stupid, so the boyz would look at the guy with the pipe will probably tell the him that that's just a pipe and doubt it's usefulness, while the mek would have known it wouldn't work in the first place. However, a pipe with spiky bits and dangerous looking electric stuff might convince everyone that it might cut armor, even if it would even scratch the famous ork t-shirts if wielded by a human. In that case, the mek probably would believe in it working, too.

Nothing prevents a mek from handing a boy a pipe and tell him it can cut armor in order to get him killed. Dem Oddboyz are vicious like that.

Yeah I know the mek boys are pretty smart (for orks at least).

First off orks aren't stupid compared to humans of the galaxys who believe a corpse on a golden chair is their god yes compared to us (most of us at least) their stupid but remember most humans including marines don't know how machines work nor do they known about what's in their own galaxy, most humans in the imperium only know about eldar and orks at most so they are stupider
Next its pretty sum up by the above post (ninja )
( my bad spelling)

Basically ive been told that their weapons are usable by anyone, however they are so poorly put together its hard to believe it works. Essentially the orks will it to work properly for them but if a SM were to pick it up it'd likely jam often or explode, lol. Its because they were genetically created and essentially have a magic aura that makes tech work

Bouregard wrote:I think you got a wrong picture of mekboys. They are highly skilled technicians but they can't explain how it works to someone else.

To make it simple: They get a nice idea what they want to build and then start to tape and bolt things together that they subconciously know will get the desired result if the waaaghfield is strong enough.


Now on the waaaghfield effect:

I think it is some sort of reality suppression effect.
Let's say mekboy A sees an aircraft of the Imperial Guard, he may now want to build one too.

His first idea of nailing some steelplates to a gretchkin will obviously not work.

The next try will be a looted airplane but as we all know crashed airplanes aren't very easy to fix. So the finished fightabomba may be a bit to heavy to actually lift of (too much weapons) and the fuel line is to small to get enough juice to the engine. But as the mekboy has seen the plane fly and painted it red it will work. The plane will use more fuel then it could fit through the fuel line and will randomly stall the engine but it will fly.

Now the same mekboy built a few hundred of those fightabombas and the waaagh is extremly potent now ( think Armageddon level). The vey same airplanes will now work extremely well. A proppeller-driven plane will get to low supersonic speed and a crude pice of tin will help the flyboy aim at targets out of visual range.

This is how I always saw it. Ork Meks have always been described as innately knowing how to build things. It's coded into their genes. In fact, some Ork tech, particularly force fields and teleporters, are far superior to their human equivalents. So they aren't just making things up and letting magic do the rest. The story about the techmarine opening a shoota to find a box of rattling parts is exaggerated at best, and just plain bunk at worst.

That said, the waaaghfield is a real thing. Red paint jobs make this pretty clear. Bouregard hits the nail on the head though. It's a subconscious thing, so the Orks can't just will things to happen. It's generally subtle too, because every ork on the battlefield isn't paying attention to Zog and his dodgy shoota over behind that rock, so it's not going to shoot through terminator armor, much less shoot without any working parts, just because Zog thinks it should. So it's more like Bouregard said, making marginally effective technology work just a little better than it probably should. Reducing jams in guns built with poor tolerances, a spark arcing over a gap where a wire came loose in the kustom force field, an extra nudge of speed when a mob watches a red trukk zoom past, etc.

There's also the old bit people repeat about how an ork could kill a titan with a shoota if enough orks believed it, and sort of contrary to what I just said, I think that might be true. That's not ever going to happen though, for the same reason Zog wouldn't shoot through terminator armor. You'd need a stadium full of orks watching him and thinking his shoota really WOULD take down a titan.

To back that up, let's look at the story of Wazdakka Gutsmek killing a Warlord Titan with his bike. It's clearly ridiculous, it's Matt Ward-grade overpowered fluff that most people would rather forget they ever read. But what if Gutsmek was crazy enough to jump his bike off a ramp at a titan's head, and what if every ork on the battlefield stopped in their tracks to watch him sail across the sky, all simultaneously thinking " 'oly mork, he's goin' right straight tru dat big stompa's FACE", and lo and behold Gutsmek's bike speared through the titan, killing it, thanks to the collective thoughts of tens of thousands of nearby orks? Suddenly that story sounds kind of awesome

This is the way I see it. We all know of the mega nobz. Well fluff wise they think they are invincible, while all the other orks think their are just tuff to kill. Since its just the mega nobz who think they are invincible and not everybody else they dont get a 5+ inv save

I've always understood it as the Mekboyz are born with a genetic memory that allows them to understand advanced technological concepts. The Collective Conciousness of the Waagh makes the tech work better, but the underlying principles of the technology are there.

Also, since Orks aren't worried about silly things like safety features, they can get by with designs that are suicidally crude by other races standards.

Human Power Axe - 3lbs. Refined metals, highly forged, compact, highly efficient, nearly silent

Choppa - 18lbs Huge crude grinded Head on sturdy Pipe with huge battery pack, inneficient tech, deafening screatch when in use.

Human or Eldar would never use it. Not only is it too Heavy
for them to swing, it casues hearing loss with prolongeed use, and shocks the weilder occasionaly on imact.

Umans and Panzees suk !! Orks Rool !!