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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 01:07:32
Subject: HS slot- Whirlwind or TFC
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Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch
Naperville
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For flulf reasons- I must have 3 HS, and They must be artillery of some sort.
So how do i break it up?
3 tfc= 300 points
3 winds with extra armor- 300 points.
Or that one LR with a thunderfire in it- Points- Unknown
the LR with a whirlwind on top
what does dakka think?
(also any IA non-apoc models should be fine. I have 3 rhinos two LRsand i am stratch building the TFC so money is not a problem, as i will scratch build it)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 01:10:56
Subject: HS slot- Whirlwind or TFC
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Plummeting Black Templar Thunderhawk Pilot
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Bow about 2 TFC and 1 Vindicator?
The TFC rape pretty much all infantry, and the vindi will give you a large nasty template that can take out anything from swarms to LR
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 01:16:24
Subject: Re:HS slot- Whirlwind or TFC
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Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch
Naperville
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I, Unfourntatly, can't take a Vindi due to fluff reasons, Sorry dude.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 01:17:19
Subject: HS slot- Whirlwind or TFC
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Yeah, the answer to your question is "neither". They're both pretty bad, what with the whirlwind being stuck with relatively low strength and mediocre ap, while the TFC is seriously hampered by the fact that it can only fire small blasts, whose killing power is seriously disturbed my opponent's displacement.
If you have determined that you absolutely must take terrible HS choices for your marine army, then I guess I'd take whirlwinds. They're much less fragile than TFCs (which are shut down by the death of a single marine, or by even glancing AV10, while the whirlwind has no such problems and can also shoot out of LOS), and, most importantly, they will be easily convertable to units that are actually good (like preds and razorbacks) once your current fetish with SM artillery passes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 01:20:43
Subject: HS slot- Whirlwind or TFC
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Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch
Naperville
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[quote=Ailaros) once your current fetish with SM artillery passes.
Lol Okay,
and its not on my choice.
For a tourney, I need to make a 2000 points list using 3 SM artillery pieces.
Thanks for the help! i already have like 6 rhino chassis, so stick something up on there.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 01:21:55
Subject: HS slot- Whirlwind or TFC
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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oh, then yeah, definitely whirlwinds.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 01:24:13
Subject: Re:HS slot- Whirlwind or TFC
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Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch
Naperville
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Thank you very much, Sir/Ma'am
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 01:49:02
Subject: Re:HS slot- Whirlwind or TFC
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Honest question, I know back in 3rd I used to be terrified of my buds Whirlwind because he would just park out of LOS and bomb with it the entire game. I know the blast can be a bit middling but 6 to 7 turns of it can add up (versus just a couple of turns with a higher threat priority and easier to shoot selection).
So what has driven the current disdain for the vehicle, lack of LOS blocking terrain? It seems all the indirect fire weapons have gone done in popularity.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 02:00:49
Subject: HS slot- Whirlwind or TFC
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Mostly that. Back in 4th ed, my basilisk used to be able to hide out of LOS behind a forest. Now I can't.
Also, 5th ed added outflanking, and basically every codex has gotten a lot better at deepstriking than they were before (one need look no further than SM gaining drop pods, for example). Also, 5th ed added objectives that require you to move around a bit, which makes sit-and-shoot slightly less effective now than it used to be. Throw in the fact that what's popular in 40k is determined by tournaments, and tournaments have a notorious reputation for practically not using terrain, and you have a decline in barrage weapons over all.
Plus, in general, multi-shot direct fire weapons have gotten better over time, while blast weapons and single shot weapons have both gotten worse, especially through the introduction of near-universal 4+ cover saves.
Finally, of course, marines have gotten better alternatives over time. For example, now that the razorback exists, you have a cheap way of dispensing a variety of good kinds of firepower, which means that your vehicular firepower options aren't just limited to a couple of vehicles quite so much as they were before.
Whirlwinds did used to be scarier back in the day. Much less so now, though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 02:16:21
Subject: HS slot- Whirlwind or TFC
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ailaros wrote:Mostly that. Back in 4th ed, my basilisk used to be able to hide out of LOS behind a forest. Now I can't.
Also, 5th ed added outflanking, and basically every codex has gotten a lot better at deepstriking than they were before (one need look no further than SM gaining drop pods, for example). Also, 5th ed added objectives that require you to move around a bit, which makes sit-and-shoot slightly less effective now than it used to be. Throw in the fact that what's popular in 40k is determined by tournaments, and tournaments have a notorious reputation for practically not using terrain, and you have a decline in barrage weapons over all.
Plus, in general, multi-shot direct fire weapons have gotten better over time, while blast weapons and single shot weapons have both gotten worse, especially through the introduction of near-universal 4+ cover saves.
Finally, of course, marines have gotten better alternatives over time. For example, now that the razorback exists, you have a cheap way of dispensing a variety of good kinds of firepower, which means that your vehicular firepower options aren't just limited to a couple of vehicles quite so much as they were before.
Whirlwinds did used to be scarier back in the day. Much less so now, though.
Right on, makes since.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 21:23:58
Subject: HS slot- Whirlwind or TFC
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I personally like my Whirlwind. It does a nice job clearing objectives and raining on what pops out of killed transports.
One point of advice, is generally fire the whirlwind after all the anti transport has had a chance to pop transports each shooting phase.
S4 ap 5, ignores cover pie plate really makes things that rely on cover saves very unhappy.
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