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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 19:07:53
Subject: To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I did the % of for a buddy of mine, but I figured that some of the newer players here would benefit from the analysis as well.
First off -6 BTS on a hacker is EXTREMELY rare. -3 is considered "good" and 0 is common.
Off 14 vs TAG -9 = 25% win
Off 15 vs TAG -9 = 30% win
Off 14 vs TAG -6 = 40% win
Off 15 vs TAG -6 = 45% win
Off 14 vs TAG -3 = 55% win
Off 15 vs TAG -3 = 60% win
Off 14 -6 vs Def 14 -0 = 61.5% win
Off 14 -3 vs Def 14 -0 = 55.5% win
Off 14 -0 vs Def 14 -0 = 44% win
Off 15 -0 vs Def 14 -0 = 52% win
Off 15 -3 vs Def 14 -0 = 60.25% win
Off 15 -6 vs Def 14 -0 = 66.25% win
Off 14 -6 vs Def 14 -3 = 47.25% win
Off 14 -3 vs Def 14 -3 = 38.75% win
Off 14 -0 vs Def 14 -3 = 31.25% win
Off 15 -0 vs Def 14 -3 = 35.25% win
Off 15 -3 vs Def 14 -3 = 46% win
Off 15 -6 vs Def 14 -3 = 52% win
Off 14 -6 vs Def 14 -6 = 31-25% win
Off 14 -3 vs Def 14 -6 = 26% win
Off 14 -0 vs Def 14 -6 = 20.75% win
Off 15 -0 vs Def 14 -6 = 24% win
Off 15 -3 vs Def 14 -6 = 30% win
Off 15 -6 vs Def 14 -6 = 37.75% win
As you can see the BTS is the money maker. Defensive hackin for something that has a -6 when you have a -0 is shooting yourself in the foot. However if you have a -3 it'll very on what you are facing and at a -6 you are sitting great. This is why the Pan'o Kamau hacker is considered the best defending hacker for it's cost even though it has a WIP 13. With it's -6 it can preform better then most of the Pan'o TAG BTSes.
Against the great Nomad Interventor (WIP 15 -3 BTS)
Off 15 -3 vs Def 13 -6 = 32% win
Off 15 vs TAG -6 = 45% win
Off 15 vs TAG -9 = 30% win
Hell even the -9 TAG is worth it just for a shot at critting the Interventor and disabling it's Hacking Device.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 21:14:55
Subject: To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Infiltrating Oniwaban
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Hey, thanks for the anaylsis, Blue Dagger! Even with the Infinity-Math tool I found this confusing.
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Infinity: Way, way better than 40K and more affordable to boot!
"If you gather 250 consecutive issues of White Dwarf, and burn them atop a pyre of Citadel spray guns, legend has it Gwar will appear and answer a single rules-related question. " -Ouze |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 22:14:08
Subject: Re:To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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So basically for my Haqqislam, a single defensive hacker is normally only a good choice against less than a hacker with WIP 14 BTS -3 and only if it's attacking HI. (Going against 14-3 might be worth if with a WIP 15 hacker or hoping for a crit).
Now I need to work out when it's worth it with two hackers...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 22:42:31
Subject: To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Now remember this is only determining defensive hacking. A hacker is still worth it for attempting hacks of your own or defending against guided ammo. it'll all very on your list.
Typically I would say 2 hackers is not worth it. The amount of points you pay for something that may have no use (not uncommon to have nothing hackable) is typically not worth the cost.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 23:08:09
Subject: To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Fusilier Paramedic
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Really useful!. I will look at Gabriele De Fersen with better eyes next time I use him, since the couple times I included him on a list, it was all Spitfire job... i think I managed to immobilize a Hsien once, in order to fire at him at will
Actually, WIP14, BTS -6, 2 wounds, and a Templar CC Weapon ( AP+Shock) ready to be used once the target HI or TAG are immobilized is pretty badass...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/31 23:51:01
Subject: Re:To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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@BlueDagger: Normally, yes. But given that I'm almost certainly going to end up with several different hackers in my collection, I might be tempted to use more than one on occasion.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/01 00:43:16
Subject: To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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[DCM]
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Given that many hackers cost at least .5 SWC, that's a gamble!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/01 00:43:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/01 01:15:32
Subject: Re:To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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Maybe. But it's a wargame - with only petty consequences for when you get your gambles wrong, why not break the mould every now and again?
Might even find they pay off once in a while.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/01 17:46:09
Subject: To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Hacking Shang Jí
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Surprised no one has mentioned the EVO repeater. That can be a game changer there.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/01 18:06:19
Subject: To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Eh to be honest I have never been impressed wit hthe EVO repeater. The abilities are cool and all but the EVO it's self is a liability in that it have no defensive ARO if it gets shot at. At 13pts and .5 SWC (plus another 20 toward retreat) I have better things to sped the points on.
Hopefully that changes with the new book.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/01 21:00:12
Subject: To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Hacking Shang Jí
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I'm guessing there will be some scenarios where it will be essential.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/01 21:24:28
Subject: Re:To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Martial Arts SAS
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/02 02:24:55
Subject: To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I would imagine it won't be long before ariadna get something like a auto-hacking device that is similar to a medikit. It allows hacking without the knowledge to do so, but you will such at it. That way ariadna can attempt hacking missions, but thwir big guns make up for their poor hacking.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/02 02:49:49
Subject: Re:To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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It seems more likely that the campaign book will take the same path as the Lost Post scenario and allow Ariadnans to take allied hackers in missions where they're required.
If there are missions where hacking is essential, it would be unfair to cripple Ariadnan players' chances like that, but it would also start to erode their distinct "flavour" if they could take hacking kit all the time. (Of course, the Meros can take an Alguacil, but sectorials are a different kettle of fish, with their own strengths and weaknesses.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/02 13:00:24
Subject: Re:To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Martial Arts SAS
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They could give them archaic hacking device.
Can't use it at range, can't be hacked and can only use it on objectives and structures (ex: doors)
So no hacker killing, no TAG controlling, no defense vs guided missiles and airdrops but still able to complete the objectives.
Or they could just give this ability to engineers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/04 18:42:33
Subject: To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Infiltrating Oniwaban
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Were it not for the stupid FAQ ruling that hackers can only go at a TAG once per turn, 2 hackers would be a lot more useful. If you do bring 2 hackers, having one of them be an infiltrator makes offensive hacking a lot easier.
Also, if you're going to hack offensively, an EVO repeater is a decent investment. If your list also happens to have some AD troops, it'll pay off even more. And if your opponent fields GML, an EVO repeater will make his tactics even more order-intensive (it breaks his FO mark as well as jamming the missiles).
For 13 points it's pretty much a must-have accessory for a hacker. Stick it in the middle of a link team or next to a Total Reaction drone if you're worried about it being vulnerable.
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Infinity: Way, way better than 40K and more affordable to boot!
"If you gather 250 consecutive issues of White Dwarf, and burn them atop a pyre of Citadel spray guns, legend has it Gwar will appear and answer a single rules-related question. " -Ouze |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/04 19:38:54
Subject: To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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Savnock wrote:Were it not for the stupid FAQ ruling that hackers can only go at a TAG once per turn, 2 hackers would be a lot more useful. If you do bring 2 hackers, having one of them be an infiltrator makes offensive hacking a lot easier.
That wasn't really FAQ - the original rules are quite clear. However, even after the FAQ, I understand it's still one attempt per hacker per turn.
The real advantage of multiple hackers would be in ARO though, I feel. With some repeaters, anything hackable doing anything within range of any of them would incur multiple hacking AROs (and can't benefit from defensive hacking, as you don't get AROs in response to AROs) and would have to go FtF against those same hackers in any attempt to reset (and would then take hacking attempts when they tried to do anything again!). Particularly with an EVO as well, that could REALLY screw up a TAG's day.
Risky though, as that would need at least 1.5 SWC for two hackers and an EVO.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/05 11:15:00
Subject: To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Dakka Veteran
Devon, UK
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Yep, it's not one attempt per turn, it's one attempt per turn per Hacker.
P.S. EVO abilities can't be used in ARO.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/05 15:20:25
Subject: Re:To Defensive Hack or not to Defensive Hack...
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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Darn. Still, would be nasty without that, and would make more use of each order in the active turn.
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