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Honestly, I went to a new gaming store this weekend that opened up recently selling Infinity and Warmachine stuff. I found the models to be barely any cheaper than Games Workshop 40k models.
Also, most non-gaming model kits around are not much cheaper than Games Workshop models. e.g an Airfix type of tank will cost £15.00-20.00 while a GW Chimera will cost 20 quid and a LRBT will cost £30.00 but are usually superior models.

Of course the only thing is that most 40k armies you need many many times more models that gaming systems such as Infinity (unless you play GK of course). But this is about the only issue and if you want small Infinity sized games then you can equally play 500-750 point 40k games for the same price with some 40k armies.

I admit I used to be "bitching at GW prices" all the time, but honestly looking at competing gaming systems and models they aren't all that bad. Sure, some things are not acceptable; like finecast is poor in my opinion for the price and the price of paints is not good value for money, with Vallejo being cheaper and of equal quality imo. Also the way they have treated fanfilms and fiction in the past has been questionable. So I still have a lot of criticism and scrutiny for them.

I think the fact so many people crying about the high prices had made me look into it more objectively and found out that actually the crying is often not justifiable.

RatBot wrote:

FifteenHours wrote:

Of course the only thing is that most 40k armies you need many many times more models that gaming systems such as Infinity (unless you play GK of course). But this is about the only issue and if you want small Infinity sized games then you can equally play 500-750 point 40k games for the same price with some 40k armies.

Argh, feth me, I should really just have this friggin saved in a word file every time someone brings up this argument:

GW games aren't designed or balanced around such small match ups. It's designed and balanced around ~1500 point armies. If you play the games the way they're designed, using the models created for the games, Games Workshop is ultimately more expensive.

No it's not. The majority of games I encounter are 1000 points. Anything over 2000 points I find a real drag and don't think the game is designed for anything over that unless you want to play Apocalypse.

Sure, 500-750 point games are not all that exciting to say the least, but it seems you and other people seem to want GW to provide 50-60 models so you can play your 1000+ point games at the same price as 10 Infinity models. That is never going to happen. What actually do you want from them?

and how many points worth of models do you need for a decent game? 40k Requires quite a bit more points, which translates into quite a bit more purchases. There is also a cost-to-effect ratio...

I already covered this in my original post so you wasted your time arguing when I agree with you...

you honestly think GW tanks are superior in quality?

Yes I do. If not in quality then I prefer the look of them. Simple as that. If that makes me ignorant in your eyes then that kind of proves that there is sometimes a degree of pretentiousness amongst those that constantly like to bitch about GW and talk up 'alternative' gaming systems like Infinity. It's the same as those god awful 'indie kids'. I'm not saying you are necessarily guilty of this so don't be offended, but I feel a lot of people are.

On a side note If you have found anything superior or equal that I could use for my IG armoury then please do link me as I am always looking for models.

Key word here is some not all, and even then, the armies available to you with the kind of budget we are talking of are entirely non-competitive. A space marine army maxed out at 500 points consists of two tac squads and a captain. The AOBR kit at L61.50 + tac squad at L23.00 makes a total of L84.50, and you're still without a codex. WM with rulebook runs you L80.95.... I really don't understand where you are getting your numbers from.

Yes some not all. Again you seem to expect that prices should be equal all round for every army not matter how many models an army needs. It's not like you don't have a choice on what army to collect. You could easily collect Grey Knights (15 models can make a 1000 point list easily) if you were that bothered about pricing. The fact is you have a choice in 40k to build big armies (IG, Orks etc) or small ones (GK, SM). In infinity you don't, so it's a bit pointless comparing them. If you want a game with only 10 models then you can play Infinity or one of the 'alternative' systems. Your choice.
What do you want GW to do? Reduce every 40k army to 10 models too? That is hardly fair.

Of course then you have the numerous shops selling all GW products brand new at 25% discounts. It's not as if these are a rarity. Ebay is even better. And second hand is wonderfully cheap.

Honestly the reason I don't bitch very much is because I have opted to go with ebay and the online stores that offer 25%+ discounts and so get everything much cheaper with MINIMUM EFFORT. Even paint stripping is remarkably easy.

I don't get why people who cry about GW prices don't just do the same.

so if GW prices are worse all around, and the quality is worse all around, then, logically speaking, the gripe is justified, because GW keeps feeding the market it's excrement telling everyone it's gourmet chocloate. The fact is that since GW opened up the market, other's have entered after it, and their quality of product is better, more affordable and better planned out. Further, GW's systems are utterly and entirely unbalanced. GW will always have a following comprised entirely of whiners because it advertises to kids, punts out the old loyal diehards and mistreats them as customers, and makes it hard for kids to keep playing by pushing the prices up so high.

No offence, but i've heard this ALL before back in the 90's when I first got into 40k, every criticism was the same. Yet GW got bigger than I ever imagined it would by the time I started playing it again last year. If it was that unbalanced it would've collapsed during those 15-20 years.

except that the consumer market is waking up, and getting very irate at the fact that there are so many other games, manufacturers and systems out there which match or exceed GW for price and quality. The consumers are irate with the fact that while they would like to stay with GW, GW's behavior, pricing or antics are not matched by any other company on the market, which is in effect pushing the customer base flying to other companies.

Again, heard it all before decades ago: "The prices are too high and the consumer base is getting so pissed off that they will go elsewhere" etc etc.

Ultimately as I have said I am by no means saying GW are perfect: Finecast problems, paint is overpriced etc. And people have every right to complain about this.
But I recognise that it is a luxury product and I recognise that I have a CHOICE to buy discount models, second hand models, or even switch to an alternative gaming system like Infinity if I want too. I am a 28 year old student and pretty broke all the time, but the fact is I have the choice to make it much more affordable and it's with minimal effort that I can do this.

This whole argument makes no sense.

40k/GW offers a gaming system that offers the consumer the chance to collect armies that has hundreds of models, if they can afford it. But it also offers armies that are smaller and more affordable. It's your choice.

Infinity offers a gaming system that offers small 10 model armies and there is no option to field ridiculously large armies.

Why did you start playing 40k if you didn't like the prices? It's kind of akin to someone buying cocaine and then complaining about the prices. "Oh, but I like it too much to stop buying it. How unfair!" ... Or someone buying a computer game and then complaining about the fact you need to buy a memory upgrade for your computer to get the absolute best graphics out of it.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

RatBot wrote:Your local meta sounds very different from the rest of the world. I used to live in upstate New York. 1500-2000 point games were the norm. Here in LA, it seems 1500 to 2000 point games are the norm. I don't have the rulebook on me, but I could've sworn up and down it mentions 1500 point games as ideal..

Rest of the world being "Not America"? Psh...Come on...

Actually I have noticed on Vassal 40k the American's on there seem to prefer higher points games compared to Europeans. No idea why that is or if there is any actual truth to it statistically. But each to their own, it depends what games you enjoy. Just because it recommends 1500 point games doesn't necessarily mean that any less or more is worse or better.

Look, if you prefer Mantic models and honestly think they are of equal or superior quality or just plain prefer them to GW, more power to you and i'm genuinely glad you are happy with Mantic etc.

I have personally not seen anything that tops or equals a model like say the Ork Warboss, but if you are happy then fine.

I have basically found a way to cut costs of 40k that are acceptable for me. I managed to build a 2000 point IG army for about 200 quid. That to me is not bad at all. Sure, some are second hand but with minimal effort you wouldn't know it.
I personally do not feel the Corporation Army models in Mantic - for example - come anywhere near the quality of Imperial Guard.

They are as 'boxy' as a motherf*cker : http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Warpath/Corporation/Product/Corporation-Heavy-Weapons-Teams-6-Figures.html

Price: £17.50

Compare that to Heavy Weapons squad from GW: £24.00

Then compare that to a shop offering 25% off, which are EVERYWHERE: £18.00

There is hardly any difference and honestly I feel in this case GW product wins hands down in cost-value-quality. Even without the 25% discount it isn't 50%+ more expensive than you are making out.

lol okay mate, "almost 50%".

If you want to take the models with the biggest price gap to pad up your statistics then go ahead.

I am willing to pay 30% more? No you see, because I pay 0.50p more for my brand-new models (so about 1%), not 30%.

That said, I would pay 30% more if it came down to it, because they are 30% better. As Davylove21 points out Mantic are (in this case at least) an inferior product.

Yeah. I can most definitely live with that.

I just find it sad because if people put as much effort into protesting about prices of things we actually need to survive as human beings that they do into complaining about GW prices the world would probably be a slightly better place. Or not.

Okay well whatever, I chose to use the heavy weapon squads because I collect IG and it was the first price comparison I looked at.

You are right we could sit here all day and price compare - some are 50% higher, some are 30% and some are undoubtedly equal.

For me at least it seems to be between 1-30% price difference. For me at least that is acceptable because for me the quality is generally better. And for me that is the end of discussion, since my original point has been proven that people tend to exaggerate the price differences between GW and alternative systems.

lol to be honest now this thread has just made me hate people that moan about GW pricing...

Bunch of middle-class kids moaning about the cost of their shiny little pieces of metal (or plastic) while billions live in desperate poverty... Please, get some perspective.

We don't need posts like this on Dakka.

If you can't contribute in a meaningful and polite manner then don't post in the thread.

Reds8n

n0t_u wrote:Then why waste time complaining about those who complain about trivial things instead of going out and helping those people?

Because when I read threads like this I want to climb a clocktower instead...