Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys

Had a game with my brother inlaw at the weekend and he used his Pheonix for the first time.

We were a little confused about the saving thow it gets. All fliers get a 4+ save as they are fast moving but the holofields give it a 4+ save.

We decided it gets 2 saves of 4+ are correct or did we miss read the rules?

You only ever get one save.

The holo fields, if I remember correctly, negate hits on a 4+. Remaining hits then see if they pen/glance. THEN you use your cover save.

It is similar to two saves, but not quite the same thing.

Ahhhh I see will reread the imperial armour book

Don't have codex with me so using Armybuilder...

Phoenix Bomber uses Titan holofields. This is an invuln save rather than armor save. yes it is 4+.

Wow what horrid armor values... The only info I can find on the phoenix is in the 2005 IA update. If this is correct then the save is a 4+ invul against any glancing or penetrating hits. It doesn't work vs close combat attacks. There would not be 2 saves. The point in the shield is that you don't have to go fast and do nothing to be surviveable (if you can call it that).

The thing is Fliers have to move and as soon as they do they get an invul save of 4+ so it makes the Holofield useless.

Not entirely useless, 1 is invulnerable the other counts as cover. Basically irrelevent. it probably made more sense for 4th edition, where fast skimmers didn't get a cover save but all hits could only count as glancing.

I can't find flyer rules that are from the current edition...

The rules are in the Imperial Armour Apoc 2008 book

erikwfg wrote:Wow what horrid armor values... The only info I can find on the phoenix is in the 2005 IA update. If this is correct then the save is a 4+ invul against any glancing or penetrating hits. It doesn't work vs close combat attacks. There would not be 2 saves. The point in the shield is that you don't have to go fast and do nothing to be surviveable (if you can call it that).

Daston wrote:The rules are in the Imperial Armour Apoc 2008 book

The first edition of the IAA book was replaced in 2011 with IAA1se. I raise you an Imperial Armour 11, pg. 170. Although, arguably, this is only when used in an Eldar Corsair Warband. This, of course, means there are no valid rules for the Phoenix. Until GW releases a new model with WD rules that is. Maybe best is to use the IA11 rules for now.

Homer

Kharrak had it spot on. Just reread the IA book the holofields gives it a 4+ save when hit and the fast mover rules gives it 4+ when its penetrated

I don't see how you come to this conclusion. Are there phoenix rules that aren't 2005?

All of the IA Update xxxx books were made obsolete with Imperial Armour Apocalypse (2008), which included the Phoenix. That book has now been replaced by Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2nd Edition (2011), which does not include the Phoenix. IA 11 has Phoenix rules as part of the Corsairs.

Homer

also dont forget there are weapons out there that ignore cover saves, so the 4+ inv is better for its all round ability to be used

There is another option - the Apoc rule book says that flyers moving fast only take glancing hits from memory. The 5th ed 40k rule book says skimmers moving fast get a 4+ cover save.

Holofields are a 4++ save.

At the last tourney that allowed IA stuff, the TO ruled that you roll to hit, glance/pen then roll holofields. After removing any successful saves, roll the fails again with a 4+ cover save to downgrade to glancing...

His rational was that skimmers moving fast get the 4+ cover but these are not skimmers...

Those apoc books are like 4th edition old. Someone mentions above the modern ones that has flier rules.

I don't have the AI11 (doom of the eldar one) yet...

i though that they only updated the units and that the core Apoc book (and its core rule set) were still valid...

Massaen wrote:I don't have the AI11 (doom of the eldar one) yet...

i though that they only updated the units and that the core Apoc book (and its core rule set) were still valid...

IAA1 was replaced by IAA1se. They pulled rules for models which are already in other books, such as IA11 and IA8, and added ones where models had no rules anymore. The core Apoc book would be the one by GW and not FW.

Homer

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Armour_Books/IMPERIAL-ARMOUR-APOCALYPSE-SECOND-EDITION.html

Imperial Armour Apocalypse: Second Edition contains updated apocalypse rules for 5th. It even states to replace all previous printings.
Not to be confused with Imperal Armour Apocalypse II, Imperial Armour Volume 2 or Imperial Armour Apocalypse: Reloaded.
Yes, all those are completely different books. Forgeworld really needs to get dreadsocked for their naming.

Apocalypse: Reloaded was straight up GW

I thought holo fields make your opponent roll 2 dice instead of 1 on the vehicle damage chart and you apply the lowest score? 35 points for just a 4+ invul seems like a costly upgrade...

That is 40k rules, the 4+ holofield is Apoc special rules