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Which Chapter in your opinions is worthy of the title of 'Chapter of Legend'? You can include Chapters not part of the poll, but regardless, please give a reason so we can all discuss why. Does not include the Traitor Legions.

DA, simply because.

Blood Angels.
They defended Terra the most.
And Sanguinius has the biggest balls of the loyalists.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:DA, simply because.

I voted Ultramarines, but yes, Dark Angels are a good choice.

thenoobbomb wrote:
And Sanguinius has the biggest balls of the loyalists.

That he did. He was so badass all he had to do was stand there. Pretty much saying: "Want some? Come get some!" Thing is, with a dead or dying Daemmonette under his boot, no one wants to come close. Except for Kha'bandha, but he got stomped by the Angel in the end.

I have to go with the Ultramarines. After all, they are "the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters". I know it is popular these days to mindlessly hate the Ultramarines for a variety of creative and nonsensical reasons, but let's be realistic.

Largest of the legions. Led the reclamation of known space during the Scouring. Their Primarch put the Imperium back together when the Emperor couldn't be put back together again. Their gene seed accounts for almost two thirds of the existing Chapters. Stopped a Tyranid Hive Fleet. Did it a second time.

All of this fluff predates Mat Ward, before anyone, most likely frothing at the mouth, jumps in to try and make that "point". (Mat Ward is like the 40K forum equivalent of Nazi. Someone will inevitably invoke his name and instantly lose whatever argument they were trying to make)



Now, none of this is to say that the other First Founding Legions are not awesome in their own way. Because I'm a fan of most of them. But if we have to choose one, the choice is pretty obvious. The creators of 40K were even nice enough to tell us this answer, lol.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:I have to go with the Ultramarines. After all, they are "the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters". I know it is popular these days to mindlessly hate the Ultramarines for a variety of creative and nonsensical reasons, but let's be realistic.

Largest of the legions. Led the reclamation of known space during the Scouring. Their Primarch put the Imperium back together when the Emperor couldn't be put back together again. Their gene seed accounts for almost two thirds of the existing Chapters. Stopped a Tyranid Hive Fleet. Did it a second time.

I agree with everything you said, but wasn't it three-fifths of all Chapters rather than two-thirds?

All of this fluff predates Mat Ward, before anyone, most likely frothing at the mouth, jumps in to try and make that "point". (Mat Ward is like the 40K forum equivalent of Nazi. Someone will inevitably invoke his name and instantly lose whatever argument they were trying to make)



Now, none of this is to say that the other First Founding Legions are not awesome in their own way. Because I'm a fan of most of them. But if we have to choose one, the choice is pretty obvious. The creators of 40K were even nice enough to tell us this answer, lol.

IMO, the reason people bash the Ultramarines (apart from Ward) is because they're not badass enough. They're the generic Astartes. Me, well, you have to start somewhere, so I'm fine with it. In fact, the fact that the Ultras are generic is a good thing, embodying the Astartes reputation for being 'jack-of-all-trades and master-of-none', allowing them to operate well in any area they need to.

Plus, the BA were highly kicked in the nuts by the death of their primarch (moar than any other chapter)

And stfu about Mat Ward. Nothing wrong with him, move along.

Ultramarines, for reasons already stated by Veteran Sergeant.

thenoobbomb wrote:
And stfu about Mat Ward. Nothing wrong with him, move along.

Except for Khornate Knights and newcrons...but that is not the place for that. Move along, nothing to see here.

Tadashi wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:I have to go with the Ultramarines. After all, they are "the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters". I know it is popular these days to mindlessly hate the Ultramarines for a variety of creative and nonsensical reasons, but let's be realistic.

Largest of the legions. Led the reclamation of known space during the Scouring. Their Primarch put the Imperium back together when the Emperor couldn't be put back together again. Their gene seed accounts for almost two thirds of the existing Chapters. Stopped a Tyranid Hive Fleet. Did it a second time.

I agree with everything you said, but wasn't it three-fifths of all Chapters rather than two-thirds?

The fluff isn't really ever consistent, and a concreted percentage has never been laid down, so the number is unclear. But the most common wording seems to be more than sixty percent or over three fifths, to suggest somewhere between 60 and 65%. The difference between 3/5 and 2/3 being only 6%, so I typically use "almost two thirds", because it then suggests a number in that 61-65% range, lol.

In reality though, only the Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Dark Angels, and White Scars have pure gene seed from what I remember. So realistically, it just sorta makes sense that the bulk of new Chapters are going to originate from their gene seed. There's no reason the High Lords and Adeptus Mechanicus are going to roll the dice with the Blood Angels' gene seed, and the Space Wolves' gene seed always leads to failure apparently. After that, you have to consider the Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, and Salamanders all have imperfections that, while not disabling, don't make sense for creating a new chapter when the AdMech probably has a giant pile of gene seed from the Ultramarines or their successors that can be used.

Starting a new Space Marine Chapter is going to involve a lot of things:
A lot of politics. I'm sure there is a lot of grumbling about how many Ultramarines-sired chapters there are. In universe even, not just amongst the unwashed 40K player population. After all, we know that the Ultramarines have maintained close ties with a large percentage of their successors, and the UM Chapter Master has a fair amount of clout, and even the ability to mobilize them (as we've seen in the fluff for a long time). Is this a bit of a hypocrisy given the intent of the Codex Astartes to split power away from Chapter Masters/Legionary Primarchs? Sure. But hypocrisy is the norm in 40K. Why would the Ultramarines be any different. Especially when such alliances are advantageous and practical.
A lot of resources. A whole new issue of power armor, vehicles, dreadnoughts, TDA, fleet ships, etc. This is a lot in the 40K universe where archaeo-tech isn't cheap and isn't plentiful. Logistics seems to be the most oft-overlooked thing in 40K by both the designers and the players. Starting a new chapter isn't something that the HL and AdMech are going to play around with. There's a proven formula for it, and very little incentive to deviate from that formula. You've got to recruit, create, train, and equip more than a thousand new trans-human super-warriors. Then you've gotta give them a pile of spaceships to fly around space in, along with the tens of thousands of trained Chapter Serfs and programmed servitors to crew the ships and maintain the vehicles, weapons and equipment.

That's pretty much why there aren't going to be too many Blood Angels successors after the Second Founding, heh. And also why the Ultramarines have continued to maintain their edge in the number of existing Chapters. If you use Ultramarines gene seed, you have the lowest margin of failure. I'd imagine the distribution of Primogenitors amongst the roughly 1000 Chapters looks like this:
Ultramarines: 62.9% (a nice average)
White Scars, Iron Hands: 20%
Dark Angels: 6% (the questionable past probably still works against them)
Salamanders, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists: 9% (flawed but viable)
Blood Angels: 2% (essentially the Second Founding Chapters, and a sprinkling here and there after that)
Space Wolves: .1%

Again though, this is just my interpretation of it. I'm sure there will be plenty of people who disagree with me.

Iron Hands. These guys got the short end of the straw. Their veterans and Primarch were killed on Istvaan, were leaderless during the Heresy and are being merceslly destroyed by the greatest enemy they have ever known... Matt Ward

Blood Angels. They have a real destiny to defend the Emperor again, one they intend on fufilling

All of the above, with multiple other Chapters too. All of the major named Chapters have done something worthy of Legend-status, whether that is defending Terra during the HH (Imperial Fists and successors, Blood Angels and successors, White Scars and successors), keeping the Imperium together after the Heresy (Ultramarines and successors), saving Armageddon from Angron and friends (Space Wolves and Grey Knights) and similar battles. IMO there's no one Chapter that is "better" than everyone else. Every Chapter has it's own way of fighting, but different does not mean superior or inferior.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:All of the above, with multiple other Chapters too. All of the major named Chapters have done something worthy of Legend-status, whether that is defending Terra during the HH (Imperial Fists and successors, Blood Angels and successors, White Scars and successors), keeping the Imperium together after the Heresy (Ultramarines and successors), saving Armageddon from Angron and friends (Space Wolves and Grey Knights) and similar battles. IMO there's no one Chapter that is "better" than everyone else. Every Chapter has it's own way of fighting, but different does not mean superior or inferior.

What about the DA? Their primarch is slowly being revealed to be an overly suspicious, selfish, underachiever. He created a civil war within his own legion and did very little to actually help the loyalists and with his messages to Guilliman, may have even delayed the Ultramarines and given the Horus forces a chance. It also seems that had Horus won the battle of Terra, Johnson would have committed to him. Of all the Loyalists, the Dark Angles would be the least Legendary and the most "opportunistic and self-absorbed". Yet somehow they are getting all the votes (BTW, I own 2K+ and really like them as a chapter, but they are about an order of medieval knights that are so neutered by infighting, secrets, and suspicion, that they are their own worst enemy, never able to become that which they could be).

Tadashi wrote:


That he did. He was so badass all he had to do was stand there. Pretty much saying: "Want some? Come get some!" Thing is, with a dead or dying Daemmonette under his boot, no one wants to come close. Except for Kha'bandha, but he got stomped by the Angel in the end.

Is this an official GW image?

Pilau Rice wrote:

Tadashi wrote:


That he did. He was so badass all he had to do was stand there. Pretty much saying: "Want some? Come get some!" Thing is, with a dead or dying Daemmonette under his boot, no one wants to come close. Except for Kha'bandha, but he got stomped by the Angel in the end.

Is this an official GW image?

I don't think so, but the fluff does mention Sanguinius just standing at the gate while the loyalists retreat around and behind him, staring down Angron before accepting (and defeating) Kha'banda's challenge.

Tadashi wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Tadashi wrote:


That he did. He was so badass all he had to do was stand there. Pretty much saying: "Want some? Come get some!" Thing is, with a dead or dying Daemmonette under his boot, no one wants to come close. Except for Kha'bandha, but he got stomped by the Angel in the end.

Is this an official GW image?

I don't think so, but the fluff does mention Sanguinius just standing at the gate while the loyalists retreat around and behind him, staring down Angron before accepting (and defeating) Kha'banda's challenge.

Nothing about the Chaos Hordes not wanting to come close though. The only thing remotely close to this is them being dismayed when the Bloodthirster gets beat and Sanguinius does a runner behind the Ultimate Gate.

Blood Angels are pretty cool, but the Imperial fists, now that's a chapter of Legend.

I would honestly say all of the original legion chapters for they are forever part of the legends of the great crusade and the horus heresy.

Oppressor wrote:I would honestly say all of the original legion chapters for they are forever part of the legends of the great crusade and the horus heresy.

Original Legions and their Second Founding successors, as otherwise part of the Legions get credit for what all of the Legions did.

I've voted for the Imperial Fists. I feel that they're the chapter of legend because of their deeds during the heresy. They held the walls of the palace and even led a counter attack after the siege was over. They suffered horrifically while holding the walls and yet still managed to mount an offensive after the Emperor, Horus and Sanguinius' deaths. They stood on the front line and never wavered. While other legions have gained more honour and prestige (such as the Blood Angels, Ultramarines and others) the Imperial Fists have been a relatively humble chapter in comparison. I feel this makes them the relatively unsung heroes of the Horus heresy and deserving of being the Legendary Chapter.

I also voted for Ultramarines because of the same reasons as most other people.