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So I have picked up the Leigon of Everblight and have decided thst I will actually give Lylyth a run and see how well I can do with her. I am looking to expand on the battle box and try to make an effective 25pt army.

pLylyth:+6
Carnivean:-11
Scythean:-9
Shredder:-2
Shredder:-2
Blighted Nyss Striders:-6pts
Blighted Nyss Shepard:-1pt

Total 25pts.

I have been thinking of making other lists but this is the one I feel would preform most solidly.

A question I am now asking is would it be worth swapping the Scythean for and Angelius. I thought I may be better for some anti-infantry killing rather than a caster killer at this point in time as the rest of the army, such as the Carnivean, should be able to handle the caster when and if they get the chance.

Thanks

Red

She has nothing to offer the Angelus that the Scythian doesn't do as well. You'd likely be better off saving a point and getting a Seraph though. That would let you upgrade the Shepherd to a Forsaken. The Seraph has a far better animus for pLylith than either the Angelus (pushback doesn't help as much) or the Scythian (if she's in melee, you have deeper problems than getting take down).

But what would be the advantages of the Seraph over the Scythean other than the animus because takedown can be cast on the Scythean and it may come in handy if I need it. As i don't see the upgrade from Shepard to be forsaken to be to big of a deal as I think I will like shepards better but I will pick up forsaken in the future. But the ability to take away as much fury as I want from close range seems good and an idea that i would like to try out. But In the future I shall be trying out the forsaken.

Seraph has an amazing animus in Slipstream. Additional movement that gets you out of trouble, extra move, or set up the angle for an assassination run. d3+1 rapid fire at POW 12 and Eyeless Sight so concealment, stealth, clouds, forest, and cover are ignored. Her feat gives boosted to hit and it's a 4 fury beast so you've got a potential 4 boosted to hit and damage rolls on the feat turn and boosted power 12's kills casters (and all the Cygnar players said "Amen"), particularly after pLylith drops Parasite on it. This guy is an assassin all the way. Strong against solos and other single models (UA's, WA's, etc.). If somehow the Seraph doesn't get the kill, the Carnivean will finish it with an assault charge.

The Forsaken is far, far better than the Shepherd. It not only gives you fury management but another tool for taking out either units or anything loaded with Fury or Focus. At most, you're going to be sucking two points of fury off the beasts in this list (Double SG, Tenacity on pLylith until you engage) you care about with the Shepherd (Shredders are just cruise missiles and if you get something off them great). That same Fury is going to go further on the Forsaken. It also causes morale tests on anything near by which is a bonus. It's also a 5 wound model so it's more durable.

Correction: Eyeless sight does NOT ignore cover or elevation.

It ignores concealment & stealth. It ignores forests and clouds for determining LOS. Thats it.

The seraph is nice, but lacks hitting power in melee and is only range 10, which means you'll be in charge range to most things. High def is nice for a beast, but vs high mat infintry, its ARM 16 will not prevent it from dying. It does however synergize very well with pLylyth as stated above.

Slipstream for the Carni is great, but with only one heavy hitter on the table, you're likely going to over extend with no back up beater and get it killed using slipstream. Slipstreamed Carni = 11.5" threat. Scythean = 11" threat... Sure is 8 pts for .5 threat for the carni...

The Forsaken vs. Shepherd debate really comes down to playstyle and taste rather than this is better than that.

Forsaken: Can take fury off a beast from 8" away (its CMD 8). It has abomination (careful, you might scare your own stuff as well). It can only have up to 5 fury on it at a time, and then when its maxed out, you either camp on it, or use it to blow something up, or charge and boost attacks, or waste it so you can continue to utilize him for fury management. He's also more survivable than the shepherds, but still die to any direct fire. The hit boxes make it harder to snipe and he can take unboosted blast damage most days. He's a great package for 2 pts, but, since he can only hold 5 fury, he has turns where he CANT help mitigate fury, making him outright less useful in this regard. I don't know about you, but I force my beasts to the max nearly every turn with the exception of possible turn one. I need to remove that hate every turn, and the forsaken do not do this as well as Shepherds.

Shepherds: Can take any number of fury off a beast and it just goes away. Best fury management we have because this can happen every turn. They can heal our beasts a d3, which means if your beast has a branch or two missing, you might be able to heal it in this way to keep it going at max without taxing your warlocks fury. It also extends the forcing range meaning if your beasts go outside their control range, they can still force within range of the Shepherd, which with pLylyth is amazingly good as she has a 10" control range. They also only cost 1 pt, so for the cost of 1 forsaken, you can run 2 shepherds. The downside is, they die easier and must stay closer to the beasts as their abilities are within 3" meaning they are closer to the action and more vulnerable.

I personally love both, and use them in a lot of lists, and the more I play, the more I see value in having a forsaken bomb waiting for that Caster camping 8 focus. But I've got to say as far as pure utility goes, Shepherds win outright. I love them.

Please take all of this as only my opinions on the matter, feel free to try BOTH and see what works for you!

I have one other question in mind. Striders or Raptors. They will both have their positives and I can really see the striders working with Lylyth. And as they are safe from shooting with the exception of AOE's they seem really survivable.

redkeyboard wrote:I have one other question in mind. Striders or Raptors. They will both have their positives and I can really see the striders working with Lylyth. And as they are safe from shooting with the exception of AOE's they seem really survivable.

Good question. They both play the ranged game well, and each has its own pros and cons, so again, this is going to be caster dependent as well as who your opponent is.

Striders are fantastic. They have stealth, CRA, and high RAT. Add in the UA (Which you will do everytime you take them, because without the UA, they are good, with the UA they become amazing) and you get Hunter, and Reform! So you move 7", shoot 12", scoot back 3" lol while still being stealth. Means if you're really good at ranges, you can keep 15" away at max from your enemies. Hunter also allows you to shoot through cover, clouds, forests, etc. They are a great solid unit, mobile, and with CRA can even put the hurt on heavies. Downside, is they are 9pts for 8 dudes, and stealth keeps them alive, so if the enemy has an answer for that, they die swiftly.

Raptors are greatness and debateably the best Light Cav in the game. They have Range 12" Poison bows, so against living models they get an extra die on damage (effective ranged weapon masters!). Then they are actual weapon masters in melee, plus they have a base speed of 9! They are FAST, and I mean FAAAAAST. 18" runs. They have a good RAT and light cav can move, shoot and then move 5" making them the ultimate mobile unit. They have hit boxes, but are squishy in comparison to other CAV and WILL die if you aren't careful with them. They cost 10pts for 5, so very expensive, and of course, you can't talk about Raptors without mentioning Annyssa. She's more of the same, but with inherent stealth and while in LOS of the other Raptors, she grants them a +2 RAT bonus! Its pretty sweet. She does give up a melee attack so no weapon master, but is a solid 4 pt solo hunter with prey.

Now, which should you take? Well that depends on you. Both I highly recommend. Against Cryx, and Warjacks, Constructs, Non-living models, the Raptors drop in value, but you can't discount a high speed group of weapon masters on the charge. Striders are a bit cheaper and are a great unit and can take down infintry quickly. I'd recommend using Both but if you MUST choose only one, I'd go with the Raptors because even a min unit of 3 for 6 pts is easy to fit in a list. Striders to me are a 9pt unit, I never take them without the UA.

Also, its important to note that Deathstalkers are FA 2, and with two of them you can effectively take out 4 infintry models a turn and they grant Striders Swift hunter, which is nice. Many forego taking either unit and just take x2 Deathstalkers and maybe Annyssa for 8 pts of solo killingness. I can't say I can argue with that since it can be effective. I <3 Deathstalkers!

I'm a raptor fan myself. I run a min unit + Annyssa at 35 alongside the shredder horde, carnivean, and a seraph.

I am wondering if it is possible to actually buy the plastic heavy kit and the squad of just 3 raptors. As I was looking on the PP website and they did not ahve them listed in the gallery. Could someone tell me how to find them?

The box of 3 Raptors is discontinued. You have to buy them in a unit of 5 now. Try some of the online retailers, you may get lucky. I like www.discountgamesinc.com awesome guys from the Chain Attack podcast and free shipping when you hit $50

What about the plastic heavy warbeast kit that includes ll 3 heavy warbeasts.

Neil says the 3 unit box of raptors are still in stock. The plastic kit is the new kit so it will be in print for a long time.

12thRonin wrote:Neil says the 3 unit box of raptors are still in stock. The plastic kit is the new kit so it will be in print for a long time.

Sorry but I dont know who neil si so youll have to tell em that one. But I have been unable to find the heavy kit on the PP website only the single kits that dotn have all the options and can only build one of them. Would you be able to provide me with a link to it on the PP website?

Thanks

Red

Neil is the Warstore.

There is not a single link to the plastic kit on the PP site. You can build either the Carnivean, Ravagore, or Scythean out of it. This is the warstore link though (http://www.thewarstore.com/product70413.html)

So if I purchase the scythean kit from the privateer press webstite i can actually build it as a ravagore?

There are different kits. There are the metal single boxes and then there is the plastic heavy kit. With the platic heavy kit you get all the pieces for the three heavies, but only one torso/legs/base so you can make one of the three. What I did was magnetize the kit so that you can hot swap between the beasts which is sweet. My one model can now be a Scythean, or a Ravagore, or a Carni and only takes seconds to slap together.

Plus, since its plastic it is cheaper than the single metal heavy kits and also easier to mod/work with. Nothing but win.

I second going to www.discountgamesinc.com. They have much better prices than the PP site and I love the podcast so I want to support them.

Its not that it is that I want to support my local stores here in the UK so buying oversea's isnt a viable option. It is so I can show them the Heavy Plastic Kit and they can veiw the product code so that they can make the order. However, I may not get it until later as I have some new list proposals.

List 1

pLylyth +6
Shredder -2
Shredder -2
Shredder -2
Carnivean -11
Blighted Nyss Striders+ UA -9
Blighted Nyss Shepard -1
Strider Deathstalker -2
Strider Death Stalker -2

This means I wont need to buy another heavy kit and I think could be one of the cheapest. made cheaper by dropping one Deathstalker in replacement for another shredder.

List 2

pLylyth +6
Shredder-2
Carnivean -11
Seraph -8
Blighted Nyss Striders+ UA -9
Blighted Nyss Shepard -1

This makes use of a Seraph and loses a shredder to get the UA for the deathstalkers. I also thought seraphs were 7pts until I checked Forwared commander and they are 8pts. Are they correct and they are 8pts or is this a glitch and they are actually 7pts?

The original list I posted also still applies. Also anyother lists that I could build up easily would be appreciated. Would like to keep Lylth for abit not sure why just thought I would giver her a chance before dismissing her as that is what I have heard many people do.

Thanks

Red

They are 8 points.

Any advice on them I have heard mix results which was why I was cautious about includign them.

They are a strange sort of model. The animus is fantastic and honestly would love to include it, but the rest of the beast feels like a light warbeast in a heavies skin.

8 pts for just the Animus, is a little steep. So many forego its cost in lieu of other support pices. It does have a ranged weapon, but its only range 10 pow 12... Strafe is nice and with the proper support it can even assassinate, but its anything but reliable.

I personally only run it in a few lists and its the first thing I cut when I'm looking to fit something else in. The inclusion of the Naga doesn't help its case either, since the animus is that much more useful and in a nice 5pt package.

Apparently the Seraph was a light beast in MK 1 and on a medium base. I wish it still was.

Conclusion: Is it worth 8 pts? Sometimes I feel it is, but a lot of the time, I have better uses for those points.

Under pLylith, I find it's very reliable. Her feat turn boosts all it's attacks. pLylith drops Parasite on whatever is doing to die. Seraph finishes it off. Most of the time when I run this list, the Seraph is the killer. If it doesn't, the Carnivean finishes it.

The 10" range is deceptive because most of the time, it really is 10" range with all the things eyeless sight lets you ignore.

pLylyth is one of the lists I actually really like it with. Having Parasite and the ability to sling a beast plus her feat making its ranged attack legit is a great combo.

I also use it in some pVayl lists to get some extra movement and emergency move Vayl if she needs repositioning or greater incite range. I also had it in my Abby list for awhile and was nice, but felt I'd be better off finding a point for another Scythean

How does the Nephlim bolt Thrower preform with pLylyth.Here is a list i have been thinkign about includijng him in. I think ti could provide decent ranged abilities and has the carnivean for assault but other than that it does seem to be lacking assaulting factors..

pLylyth +6
Shredder -2
Carnivean -11
Nephlim Bolt Thrower -6
Blighted Nyss Striders + UA -9
Strider Deathstalker -2
Blighted Nyss Shepard -1

The bolt thrower could easily be replaced by something that would benefit the list more wheter that be 3 shredders another shredder and raek I don't know so any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Red

My plylyth list looks just like your first list at the top.

Lylyth
shredder
shredder
carnivean
scythean
striders
sheperd

and it preformed horribly. We played some thronwood scenarios and I just couldn't do anything. My opponent was playing Men-of-War units/juggernauts and I just couldn't penetrate that high ARM. So just be careful with Striders because they are next to useless against high ARM targets, even with CRA. They did very well against the long gunner/ATGM player i played second, however. Just make sure you have something to take out high ARM/warjacks.

For the Striders to affect high arm, first you need to CRA a bunch on one target, and that target should be parasited first.

High arm is always going to be an issue for ranged units. Ravagore's with base POW 15 can do some damage at range. Parasite makes it an effective ranged POW 18 boostable

Keep trying things out, and test out the Deathstalkers, they're great for cheap solo hunting and infintry clearing. They are a cheaper alternative to the max unit of striders + UA.